{"id":1009,"date":"2017-11-27T14:26:51","date_gmt":"2017-11-27T07:26:51","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/?p=1009"},"modified":"2018-10-20T08:30:24","modified_gmt":"2018-10-20T01:30:24","slug":"headline-project-copywriter-justin-blackman","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/headline-project-copywriter-justin-blackman\/","title":{"rendered":"TCC Podcast #59: 100 headlines a day for 100 days with Justin Blackman"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>For the 59th episode of <em>The Copywriter Club Podcast<\/em>, in-house copywriter and creator of <em>The Headline Project<\/em>, Justin Blackman, is in the house to share how writing 100 headlines a day for 100 days changed his writing and his business. (We recorded this one a couple of months ago and are just getting around to publishing it now\u2014apologies Justin.) In this episode Justin shares:<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0his path from sports and field marketer to copywriter<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0what his job as an in-house copywriter involves from one day to the next<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0why he started a side gig as an outlet for his creativity<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0how Shel Silverstein helped launch his first side gig\u2014try, fly or walk away<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0why more copywriters should consider in-house gigs instead of freelancing<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0what in-house copywriters can expect to make (yep, we asked this question)<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0what made Justin decide to write 100 headlines in 100 days<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0some of the \u201ctricks\u201d he used for brainstorming to stay prolific<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0how his \u201ccreativity muscle\u201d grew as he did the work every day<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0how he found motivation from the people he said he couldn\u2019t do it<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0how the Headline Project has helped him grow his business and list<\/p>\n<p>Plus we asked Justin how in the world he balances his work along with his side projects with his family duties, and we asked his advice on what copywriters should do to move their own businesses forward. To hear his answers, click\u00a0the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.<\/p>\n<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_3056\"><!--[if lt IE 9]><script>document.createElement('audio');<\/script><![endif]-->\n<audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-1009-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC059.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC059.mp3\">https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC059.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC059.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/?powerpress_pinw=1009-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC059.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"TCC059.mp3\">Download<\/a><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/thecopywriterclub.com\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<h3>The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:<\/h3>\n<p><em><a href=\"http:\/\/thecopywriteraccelerator.com\">The Copywriter Accelerator<\/a><\/em><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/P._T._Barnum\">PT Barnum<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Bill_Veeck\">Bill Veeck<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/humor-copywriter-lianna-patch\/\">Lianna Patch<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.copyhackers.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Copyhackers<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/gp\/product\/0060256672\/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=9325&amp;creativeASIN=0060256672&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;tag=brandstory00-20&amp;linkId=81f808b0f939a6776e1182996bc480d5\">Shel Silverstein<\/a><br \/>\n<em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.poemhunter.com\/poem\/hippo-s-hope\/?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Hippo\u2019s Hope<\/a><\/em><br \/>\n<em><a href=\"http:\/\/theheadlineproject.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">The Headline Project<\/a><\/em><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/laura-belgray\/\">Laura Belgray<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/talkingshrimp.com\/tagline?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\"><em>Tackle Your Tagline<\/em>\u00a0cheatsheet<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/copywriter-joel-klettke\/\">Joel Klettke<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/prettyflycopy.com\/?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">PrettyFlyCopy.com<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/prettyflycopy?lang=en\">Justin\u2019s Twitter<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/kirahug.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Kira\u2019s website<\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/kaleighmoore.us11.list-manage.com\/subscribe?u=7bdb50a2eb0d5b0a501cd1bf4&amp;id=9bf46b3e1d\"><br \/>\n<\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/www.brandstoryonline.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Rob\u2019s website<\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/kaleighmoore.us11.list-manage.com\/subscribe?u=7bdb50a2eb0d5b0a501cd1bf4&amp;id=9bf46b3e1d\"><br \/>\n<\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/groups\/thecopywriterclub\/\">The Copywriter Club Facebook Group<\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\"><br \/>\n<\/a>Intro:\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/soundcloud.com\/fauves\/content-for-now\">Content (for now)<\/a><br \/>\nOutro:\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/album\/gravity\/id304219081?i=304219099\">Gravity<\/a>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<h3>Full Transcript:<\/h3>\n<p><strong><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright wp-image-1023 size-medium\" src=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/11\/justin-blackman-bw-300x300.png\" alt=\"justin blackman copywriter\" width=\"300\" height=\"300\" srcset=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/11\/justin-blackman-bw-300x300.png 300w, https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/11\/justin-blackman-bw-150x150.png 150w, https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/11\/justin-blackman-bw-768x768.png 768w, https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/11\/justin-blackman-bw-1024x1024.png 1024w, https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/11\/justin-blackman-bw-400x400.png 400w, https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/11\/justin-blackman-bw-50x50.png 50w, https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/11\/justin-blackman-bw.png 1350w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/>Rob:<\/strong> What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That\u2019s what Kira and I do every week at <em>The Copywriter Club Podcast<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>You\u2019re invited to join the Club for episode 59, as we talk with copywriter Justin Blackman about his journey from marketing manager for companies like Red Bull and Five Hour Energy to copywriter and content manager, what it\u2019s like as an in-house copywriter, balancing in-house work with freelance work and a family, and what he\u2019s learned from his 100 day headline project.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Justin, welcome!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin:<\/strong> Hi!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Thanks for being here. We\u2019ve had a chance to get to know you better in <em>The Copywriter Club<\/em> and <em>The Copywriter Accelerator<\/em> and I think it\u2019d be really fun to just start with your story and maybe parts of your story that we don\u2019t know, specifically how you went from sports marketing to content creator to copywriter. So, can you share that path with us?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin:<\/strong> Yeah! It\u2019s kinda one of these paths that seemed obvious to everyone but me. I went to U Mass for sports marketing, mostly because I wanted to work for the New York Rangers, which was pretty \u201chigh school\u201d of me but I had a good time there and learned a lot. The biggest change was that I had one professor there that talked about P.T. Barnum and Bill Veeck, who was a baseball promoter\u2014he owned the Chicago White Sox and the Cleveland Indians\u2014and really, focused more on big-time promotion and making the game fun. And these guys didn\u2019t sit in the skybox, they were down in the cheap seats with the bleacher creatures and just having fun and talking to the people.<\/p>\n<p>So, I realized pretty quickly that as much as I love sports marketing, it was more the marketing side that I liked, and that branched me into field marketing. And field marketing is essentially a fancy way of saying \u201cconsumer sampling\u201d. So, anytime you go somewhere and they\u2019re handing out different promotional items\u2014could be drinks, or Chapstick, or anything if you\u2019re going to a concert or even just walking through the street and they\u2019re handing out different items, that\u2019s field marketing. I was super fortunate to land jobs with companies that understood field marketing for the right reasons.<\/p>\n<p>It wasn\u2019t just about getting people to try out your product, it was really more about getting the chance to explain your product to people. So, I worked for Plymouth for a bit and that was geared toward running shoes. We went to long distance runners and marathons and really got a chance to spend a lot of time talking about the products with people. And I just knew that that\u2019s what I really wanted to do. I love talking to people, I love getting the feedback, I love just finding ways and hooks to talk to people. That would end up leading to Red Bull, which is pretty much the ultimate field marketer in the entire world. Absolutely amazing brand, fantastic product, and they didn\u2019t just hire college kids to go out and hand out cans and I know that that\u2019s what it can look like from the outside, and they actually do a little bit more of that now, but when I was there, it was all about the right message, the right person, the right time, and really building their brand through one-on-one communication. And they didn\u2019t care if one single interaction took 45 minutes\u2014if that\u2019s what it took to get a customer, that\u2019s what you did! I had a fantastic time doing that, which is where i learned a little bit about improv training, which I know you\u2019ve had other writers talk about that. Lianna Patch, specifically, just being able to think on your feet, and as I was managing that team, I was in Savannah, Georgia and Charleston, South Carolina, and I was running the Red Bull team there, I was noticing that essentially what a lot of the team would be doing is they would be talking about what\u2019s written on the can.<\/p>\n<p>And it would have things on the back and it would say like, \u201cIt stimulates your metabolism.\u201d So, after lunch, we\u2019d be going around and saying, \u201cYou\u2019re going to want to drink this now because it\u2019ll stimulate your metabolism!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>The average consumer had absolutely no idea what that meant, so we kind of followed it out by saying, it basically means you\u2019re not going to get a food coma after you eat. And they\u2019re like, OH! Great! Fantastic! I always get that. Yeah, I\u2019ll try it.<\/p>\n<p>So I created a training program that took a few months to develop\u2014we called it Cause and Effect, where we\u2019d always say this will cause your metabolism to stimulate so you won\u2019t get a food coma after lunch. Looking at it now, I can clearly see that that\u2019s benefits over features, but I didn\u2019t know that because I wasn\u2019t studying copywriting at the time. It was just something that I kind of developed and ended up creating a national program out of it, so I did really well there. 5 Hour Energy was pretty much the next step for people that got too old to work for Red Bull.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s essentially the same product, but without the branding. And a lot smaller. But, it was kind of like home, though. Everyone at 5 Hour were former Red Bull people, so it was a natural fit. Continued on with that, and after 5 Hour, I was kinda out of work for a little bit and I said you know, I understand field marketing and I get this and this is probably what I should do\u2014I\u2019m gonna give it a go!<\/p>\n<p>So I created my own business and I must\u2019ve spent 3 months figuring out how to build a website, and discovered Copyhackers, and just fell down the rabbit hole. I was like, this is what I want to do! But, the problem was, I spent so much time reading and learning and building out my website that I never actually marketed myself, and ran out of money real fast. So, wound up looking around and landed with IHG, and they were looking for someone in content. I went in for a few interviews and really connected with the boss, because we were just talking about writing in general and she was a former newspaper editor and magazine editor and just were talking about content and really it it off and I\u2019ve been there ever since!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>So Justin, I gotta know\u2014did you get to drive the car with the big can of Red Bull on top of it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin:<\/strong> Yeah, I did! It was fun, man! Mini Coopers are small, and when they have a big can on the back, they\u2019re not very aerodynamic.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Everybody\u2019s seen the car, that\u2019s for sure.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> I actually tried out\u2014or auditioned? I feel like you have to audition to work with Red Bull\u2014in college, and I got rejected! So I don\u2019t drink Red Bull because of that. (laughs)<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin:<\/strong> (laughs) I understand! That\u2019s the kind of lasting impression we want to have!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>Okay, so now that you are in your current job, what are you focused on there? What\u2019s your day to day like now?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019m a content manager for loyalty and partnership. So, IHG Rewards Club, just the general loyalty club, the points running program about reward nights, and all the things that you can earn. I create a lot of the content for that. And that could be anything from blog posts to email to the merchandising and banners that you see on the web. We have a lot of industry jargon for it and a lot of acronyms. Essentially, I talk about points a lot.<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, I put out a lot of emails. We\u2019ve got a list of over 7 millions people that we can reach with a single email and that\u2019s kind of intimidating but I do get to write out to them.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>Wow, no pressure.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin:<\/strong> Yeah, no pressure. I\u2019m very happy that the first time I wrote an email that went out to the full list, I didn\u2019t know.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> (laughs) So, I want to back up a bit. You mentioned that you know, after your field marketing jobs, you were out of work for a little bit and created your own business, ran out of money&#8230; What did that time really look like? Why didn\u2019t it work? Was it just in retrospect you realized, Oh, I should\u2019ve been marketing and when I was in it, I didn\u2019t realize it was important? What happened and how can other copywriters try to avoid that so that they can take off with their business?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin:<\/strong> I wound up realizing pretty quickly that oh, I don\u2019t want to do field marketing anymore, I want to do writing. I went into it thinking I was one thing, and came out thinking I was something else. Or knowing that I was something else. And, do a lot of soul searching and make sure that you\u2019re going to make the leap for the right reasons and not be a big old dummy like I was.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>That\u2019s cool. So let\u2019s talk a little bit about what you\u2019re doing in-house, like you mentioned some of the things that you\u2019re writing, but what is being an in-house writer look like? Obviously you\u2019re not writing every single day, eight hours a day, there are meetings, there\u2019s strategy&#8230; Tell us what that all involves.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin<\/strong>: IHG is a big, big behemoth of a company. We\u2019ve got a 30-story office building and I\u2019m just a cog in the machine there. The thing that I love about IHG and just being surrounded by all of these people and this whole corporate machine, is: I have access to so many people. I\u2019ve got meetings with our content operations team, who make the websites go live and can understand the coding and why certain things will work and why they don\u2019t work. We\u2019ve got data analysts that will tell you everything about how our websites are performing and realize how to optimize it and will learn from all of the different programs and all of the other hotels because we have 12 brands, so we know if something has worked for one it\u2019ll probably work for another but there might be a reason why it doesn\u2019t.<\/p>\n<p>We have all the different brand voices, so I have to translate it into something that will fit into continental hotels, which is more higher end as opposed to something like Staybridge, which is more your mid-to-lower scale. So, I get the chance to work with all these different brands. We\u2019ve got stakeholders because we are a public corporation. There\u2019s definitely revenue attached to everything.<\/p>\n<p>We have to always make money, which is the ultimate goal, but we\u2019re still trying to find a balance. And I feel like we\u2019re all on the same page, but there are times that I need to say hey, I feel like we might be going a little too far in one direction, maybe we should pull it back and remember that the consumers come first. Usually, people agree with that. We all have goals\u2014there\u2019s definitely some pressure to hit them. There\u2019s definitely a lot of meetings and it\u2019s just nice to have all of these resources and just so much more than I ever could\u2019ve imagined and never would have had a chance to do on my own.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> So, one of the things when I worked in-house that I really liked is that I didn\u2019t have to deal with a whole bunch of clients, you know, tracking down the work and that sort of thing. But in some ways, that\u2019s not really true. You have a lot of different clients\u2014they\u2019re just internal. They all have the same company name, right? So how does that work for you? In providing for different areas of the company, the kinds of projects that you work on, etc? How do you balance all of that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin:<\/strong> It\u2019s tough! As much as I always say that I\u2019m writing for the end consumer, it does have to go through several rounds of reviews internally, so there are times that I need to sort of gear a little bit more towards the stakeholder, and you have to write for approval. So, yeah, sometimes some of your messaging gets lost and you have to cut out the personality to it just to make it a little bit more universal.<\/p>\n<p>We also have to do translations, because we write world-wide, so we have to take out some of the colloquialisms that we might use. I remember getting slapped on the wrist because I put the word \u201cawesome\u201d in something once. It was geared toward millennials, so it made sense, but they were like \u201cwe can\u2019t translate awesome!\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>Man! That\u2019s a bummer!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> If I couldn\u2019t use the word awesome, I don\u2019t think I\u2019d be able to write anything! (laughs)<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin: <\/strong>It\u2019s tough, man, it\u2019s tough!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>It\u2019s an awesome word!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin: <\/strong>I agree, and I like to use it! I think we overuse it a little bit, but&#8230;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob<\/strong>: Of course.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin:<\/strong> I guess at IHG, I don\u2019t have the chance to overuse it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> So how do you stay creative? I think anyone who\u2019s visited your website or worked with you\u2014I\u2019ve worked with you\u2014knows you are one of the most creative copywriters. How do you really stay creative when there are constraints and you\u2019re writing for a global market and you have different stakeholders? How do you do it personally so that you can make sure that not only are you selling and making money but you\u2019re also personally satisfied and in touch with building the brand and connecting with that consumer?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin: <\/strong>First off, thank you! Secondly, it\u2019s a balancing act. You kinda give up some of the creative freedom for a steady paycheck and things like that. I try to put it in where I can. After two\u2014going on three\u2014years I realize that it\u2019s not always going to be as creative as I want it to be which is sort of why I do my own thing on the side.<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s where Pretty Fly came from. And, the way that that started was as I mentioned, I write for 7 million people, but i don\u2019t write for myself there. I\u2019ve always loved children\u2019s stories and I kind of in my heart always want to go back and one day write a children\u2019s story, and I actually started to do one with my daughter. I was like you know what? I\u2019m gonna write for me! And she was 6 at the time.<\/p>\n<p>We were having a fantastic time doing this and we had an outline of the story and I\u2019m writing for her and I\u2019m loving it and she\u2019s being really creative and just kind of getting me going and it\u2019s right in my wheelhouse&#8230; and then, we have a really pivotal point in the story and my daughter wants to introduce some new characters and some new animals and take control of the story, and I\u2019m just like what are you doing kid?! I love you, but you\u2019re a terrible editor!<\/p>\n<p>I was just kind of realizing, alright, now I\u2019m writing for seven million and one people but I\u2019m still not ready for myself. So, that\u2019s when I created Pretty Fly Copy. And that was like, I\u2019m going to do this for me! It actually started out as a blog, just sort of writing for myself and it evolved into actual copywriting. But that\u2019s where I get to be me, and I love my site. I love the voice on it. I actually went a few months without looking at it and I went back and I looked at it and I was like, I still love this! This is me! This has got my fingerprints on it. That\u2019s where I find the creativity. And I really only work with clients that shit my style and pimp my brand and I guess I\u2019m fortunate to be in a position, I guess monetarily, that I can say no to clients and if it\u2019s not something that I think will be my style and if it\u2019s not going to allow me to express myself, I probably won\u2019t take the client.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> I dig your website. I like the voice there as well, and I love the fact that it\u2019s sort of an iteration from Shel Silverstein and some of the influences you\u2019ve had, like when you talked about your children\u2019s story. You started Time to Fly, and then you say that you failed or that you fell\u2014tell us a little bit about that failure and how you sort of picked yourself up from there.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin: <\/strong>Sure! Time to Fly was after 5 Hour Energy when I thought that I wanted to get into field marketing. I loved the logo that I had on that site\u2014I still have it somewhere\u2014it\u2019s a flying hippo, which is based off of a Shel Silverstein poem, called the <em>Hippo\u2019s Hope<\/em>, it\u2019s tattooed on my shoulder, and so that was when I went into field marketing but I spent so long on Copyhackers that I never actually launched, but learned everything it taught me for Pretty Fly.<\/p>\n<p>But the idea was, in <em>Hippo\u2019s Hope<\/em>, there\u2019s the story about a hippo who builds a set of wooden wings and he walks up to the top of a hill, and it goes to like a choose your own adventure style, and in one, he jumps and he falls and he breaks all his bones. In one ending he jumps and he flies away, and in the other ending, he turns around and goes home and has cookies and tea. And I sort of took the idea of that\u2014either try, fly, or walk away, and that\u2019s kind of been my motto ever since. Everything that I\u2019ve been doing has a fly theme into it.<\/p>\n<p>I went from Time To Fly to Pretty Fly, and I knew all the reasons why Time To Fly failed, and it\u2019s because I just didn\u2019t have the hustle and didn\u2019t really know how to put myself out there. I think I was afraid. Working in-house gave me a safety net and I can go out and if I don\u2019t get a client, that\u2019s okay, because I still have my day job and it still gives me all the time and all the finances and I\u2019m covered and I\u2019m good and I get to write and I work with amazing people. Pretty Fly\u2019s where I go when I need a little bit more creative outlet and it just lets me be me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> So, your favorite Shel Silverstein poem is&#8230;?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin:<\/strong> It\u2019s gotta be Hippo\u2019s Hope. I love it. I mean, I do love Where The Sidewalk Ends\u2014definitely one of my favorites&#8230; but I mean, <em>Hippo\u2019s Hope<\/em> is tattooed on me. I actually have got four Shel Silverstein poems tattooed on me, but <em>Hippo\u2019s Hope<\/em> is number one.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Whoa!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Super fan.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Awesome. Should more copywriters look for their in-house gigs, similar to your own, are we potentially not thinking about it when it could really benefit our long-term career?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin: <\/strong>I definitely would not knock it. If you are starting out or are mid-level and are struggling a little bit, yeah! I recommend it. I love my job. Again, I don\u2019t have to worry about money too much. You definitely sacrifice creative freedom, but you get so much out of it. I learned about writing for mobile and web and even a little bit of direct response and I get so much experience that I would have never had just focusing on other blog content, which is what I originally wanted to do, or email, and just getting the chance to write to seven million people and seeing how my work can perform and testing against the agency controls that we have on Pages, yeah. It\u2019s such a great experience and you learn so much.<\/p>\n<p>And you know, even just working with designers, which I never got a chance to do and seeing how my copy\u2019s going to work into the layout and seeing how certain text wouldn\u2019t work based on the layout of a page. I recommend it. It\u2019s good money and it gives you such amazing experience.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> And speaking of money&#8230; of course we have to ask, because we\u2019re nosy: Without sharing your exact salary, would you mind just sharing some rough numbers as far as what an in-house copywriter may make at different levels?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin:<\/strong> Sure! Now, there\u2019s obviously different areas and different levels and we have a lot of contractors\u2014anything from fulltime to part time contractors\u2014that work two or three days a week depending on where they are, and I\u2019d say that in-house, you\u2019re probably looking anywhere from $50,000 to over six figures. It really just depends on your market and what company it is.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Cool!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> So I want to shift gears a little bit and talk about the project you\u2019ve been working on for the past&#8230; well, by the time we go live with this, you\u2019ll just about be wrapped up, or have just wrapped up the Headline Project. Tell us about that, what got you started on it, why you\u2019re doing it, and how it\u2019s going!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin:<\/strong> It\u2019s your fault!<\/p>\n<p>(laughter)<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin:<\/strong> It\u2019s <em>The Copywriter Accelerator<\/em>! It made me and broke me in the same day. (laughs) We were on a call just sort of talking about niches and where we wanted to go\u2014I always feel so pompous when I say niche.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> I feel the same way, but I refuse to say niche. I like niche better but I always feel like a jerk.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin:<\/strong> Yeah, it\u2019s like \u201cjif\u201d as opposed to GIF. I know it\u2019s \u201cjif\u201d, but everybody says GIF, and I\u2019m going to say GIF. It\u2019s just one of those words. But anyway, so, <em>The Copywriter Club Accelerator<\/em>\u2014I was really trying to figure out what my niche would be and I thought I wanted to work for good-hearted companies, like the B-Corps that were giving back to their community because I\u2019d worked with one and I really enjoyed it. And then, I\u2019m working on another client, totally different, and it\u2019s like I don\u2019t know what I want to write about. Maybe I\u2019ll just sort of try different things and I knew what I didn\u2019t want to do and that was click bait. I despise things like <em>BuzzFeed<\/em> and&#8230; they\u2019ve got good articles and good content but I hate the click bait words and click bait headlines.<\/p>\n<p>So, we\u2019re just sort of talking and said maybe I should just start working on some headlines for people, and I think it was Bayardo in the group said, \u201cYeah! Why don\u2019t you just write 100 for 100 days?\u201d And being dumb I was like, \u201cYeah, okay!\u201d So I think it was the next day I started writing 100 lines and I\u2019m what, 76 days in right now, I think? And I\u2019m too dumb to stop. (laughs)<\/p>\n<p>But, I\u2019m nearing the end, I\u2019m very happy about it. It\u2019s been a heck of a challenge. I\u2019m really glad I\u2019m doing it but I\u2019m going to be so happy when it\u2019s over.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>So let\u2019s talk about how it\u2019s been going! What have you learned from it? What\u2019s hard about it? What\u2019s gotten easier?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin:<\/strong> Sure! As far as learnings&#8230; I\u2019ve learned what I\u2019m not good at, which is really important to do, so I\u2019ve learned that writing for any formal type product\u2014anything like self-empowerment or woo-woo\u2014that\u2019s not me. I struggle with tech.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> You don\u2019t do the woo? (laughs)<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin:<\/strong> I don\u2019t do the woo. I don\u2019t. I tried! I failed. (laughs) Those lines are not good. And anything that\u2019s a little bit more female-oriented. The post that always comes to mind\u2014there\u2019s one for family photography and new mom photography that I tried\u2014and I just hated that one. I can\u2019t get this. I can\u2019t picture it. I don\u2019t know why anyone would really want to hire me for that, but if they ever did, I would say no. No. Definitely not.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> (laughs)<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin:<\/strong> And I learned that my niche is nowhere near what I thought it was. As I said, I thought it was going to be like B-Corp and good companies, but it\u2019s really more about the style of the business than the category of the business. I like some of the more out-there fun type of brands, but I also learned that I\u2019m not as wild as some of the brands that are currently out there.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> What?!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin: <\/strong>See, there are a few that I immediately looked at and said, you know what? I want to write for 100 headlines for Freakers, which is a sock company and they also make beer coozies. They have some of the best branding in the entire world\u2014I absolutely love them\u2014and I looked at their site and I was like you know what? They don\u2019t need 100 lines from me. They\u2019re fantastic and I don\u2019t even know that I could write like this! It\u2019s great!<\/p>\n<p>So, I needed to find brands that are sort of going for personality but haven\u2019t gotten there yet but I just realized that it\u2019s really more of a social, the way that people\u2019s voices have taken off and they\u2019ve been able to be wild. I\u2019m not big on social\u2014I don\u2019t do a whole lot with it and I don\u2019t have that style that I see a lot of really funny people on social have. So, I learned that I can\u2019t do that.<\/p>\n<p>And I know that a few of the ways that I\u2019ve been able to get my favorite lines are by pulling from outside sources. So, songs, memes\u2014that was a huge one for me.<\/p>\n<p>The day that I was searching and I clicked on Google images and I was hit with a bunch of memes for a category\u2014it was for owl rescue, I was doing something on how you can adopt them now\u2014and when I clicked on images and I was hit with stuff with Harry Potter and different puns that people had posted memes with, the lines wrote themselves after that! I highly recommend that. That was a great stumble-upon that I had.<\/p>\n<p>Even Reddit\u2014something i had never really been on and spent time on\u2014but you can do some searches there and find some really interesting inspirations. Terrible, terrible people on Reddit, but also some really funny ones. I\u2019ve also been surprised at how many posts I can swipe from that are completely unrelated to what I\u2019m working on at the time. There was one that I did for improv comics and it was actually improv corporate training called Do More Improv and it\u2019s in the first 10 days\u2014I wanna say it was like day eight\u2014that post has come about time and time again and the lines that I\u2019ve written for that are so usable in different blogs and you know, once I have the lines and they\u2019re written in my brain, just sort of ways to pull from it\u2014I kind of created the ultimate swipe file accidentally.<\/p>\n<p>Once you do the work and it\u2019s yours and you can reference it for yourself, it just becomes such a great thing to pull from. So I\u2019m happy that I\u2019m doing it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> I\u2019ve used your website and this project and my own swipe file as I\u2019ve been working on projects and brainstorming and coming up with different headlines as well. I\u2019d love to hear more about your actual process! So, once you\u2019re sitting down and you\u2019re like, alright, I\u2019ve got to write 100 today, what does that look like, step by step, behind the scenes? What aren\u2019t we seeing that\u2019s actually happening?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin:<\/strong> Oh, there\u2019s a lot of rum. A lot of rum and a lot of beer. (laughs) It\u2019s changed a little bit over time\u2014it\u2019s evolved\u2014and I\u2019m actually changing it up again right now. I had a list that\u2014it was probably about 370 headlines and different formulas \u00a0that I had gathered from different websites\u2014and I started with that and I used, I\u2019d say the one that became the go-to for me, at least for a while to get me started, was Laura Belgray\u2019s <em>Tackle Your Tagline<\/em> cheatsheet.<\/p>\n<p>Go download that right now. I\u2019ll wait. Hit pause. Go get that one.<\/p>\n<p>When you come back&#8230; I essentially took the blank for blank, and six ways to blank, and I took that and I started going and over the first 10 days, I probably whittled it down to about 100 lines that I liked, and I just set them there for reference. The goal was to start writing out my own, and I\u2019d say the first days I was able to write 15-20, and the I\u2019d reference a few of the templates, I\u2019d see like 3 lines, and then write another 15-20, and go back&#8230; It got to the point where I can write between 60 and 80 without looking at the template. Just from the repetition.<\/p>\n<p>Just from knowing what the styles are, pulling messaging in, and being able to put myself in the scenario and feeling all the feels that I want the reader to feel and just getting a little bit more sensory with it. I try to write 50 at a time over the course of two sessions. It doesn\u2019t always happen, but a lot of the time it\u2019s 100 at once, usually. But I don\u2019t have a chance to do it during the day and I have to do it late at night. So, there\u2019s a lot of that. Then, I have to randomize the order when I go back to look at it, and that\u2019s not to cheat so that it makes a more interesting post, which, I kind of feel like it is sometimes, but the reason is, I hate every single line of text that I write when I\u2019m done.<\/p>\n<p>I need about 3 or 4 days away from it to look at it and say hey, these are pretty good! But when they\u2019re in order, I see my train of thought being written out. I see how one line of thought leads to the next, to the next, to the next. So I need to scramble that up so I lose that train so I can see each line individually. From there, I wait about 3 or 4 days to go and find those lines and then, when it comes time to post them, which I\u2019m a couple of days ahead of what you guys are seeing\u2014I\u2019m five days ahead right now\u2014I run down the list, highlight my favorites, and you know, describe the learnings of each lesson.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> One of the things that has been interesting to me as you\u2019ve written about the process and how things have gotten easier for you, is that creativity is really a muscle and the more you exercise it, the better you get at it, the easier it comes, and I think I\u2019ve seen that as you\u2019ve written and the lines have gotten better, I think, for the most part. If you take the set of lines from day 75 they\u2019re significantly better than the set of lines from day 2.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin:<\/strong> Oh, agreed. I think, early on, I was definitely relying on the formulas too much. The first post was almost 100% formulas and totally different from what I was going for. Yeah, it\u2019s just sort of getting into that flow. As I said I could write 60 to 80 without taking a break and without even looking at a template.<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, I\u2019ve learned to\u2014I kind of said it before\u2014put myself in this situation and think about&#8230; and this is where I\u2019ve actually pulled from my field marketing days a little bit more&#8230; from having spoken to so many people on different scenarios about giving out Red Bull and Five Hour, that I think about specific situations that I was in that I was talking to people in and I\u2019ll put myself in that spot as I\u2019m writing the lines and just being able to pull from that marketing background&#8230; and just building that arsenal of scenarios. It\u2019s helped me be more empathetic with my writing.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s something I think I\u2019ve always been able to do but I can do it even better now and yeah. By far, being creative and pulling from different scenarios and lists and pop culture. It works.<\/p>\n<p>Never gets easy, but it gets easier.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>So, what kind of motivates you at this point? I mean, this is a big challenge. I imagine it\u2019s painful some days, maybe not, but what keeps you going and what advice would you give to someone who is considering taking on a big challenge? Maybe not this exact challenge, but something that feels daunting?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin:<\/strong> If it feels daunting, do it. It probably means you\u2019re heading in the right direction. As far as motivation, to this day, the wallpaper on my computer is still from Joel Kletke saying \u201cI give this exactly three days lol\u201d\u2014and that was the day that I announced it. It was written seven minutes after I posted that I was going to do 100 headlines for 100 days. And now, it crushed my spirits for a few minutes and Joel is a great guy, I will say this: He and I have spoken since then and he\u2019s patted me on the back and he\u2019s cheering me on, but that was my motivation.<\/p>\n<p>Once I put it out there, I was like, alright, well, I have to do it now. So, I would say once you decide that you should do it, tell someone, and that will hold you accountable. I could\u2019ve done this by myself and I was like, yeah, no one\u2019s watching, and I could\u2019ve given up, but the fact is, there are people watching and I\u2019ve had writers reach out to me that I respect and really accomplished people reach out to me and are cheering me on&#8230; yeah, people are watching, so say you\u2019re going to do something and then do it. That\u2019s the biggy. There\u2019s nothing special about me, I don\u2019t have any characteristic or trait that makes this any easier for me than it would be for you\u2014just do it. Nike up!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> I\u2019d love to hear\u2014I know you\u2019re not finished yet\u2014but what has the impact been as far as your business, positioning, recognition, and how are you using it to grow your business, too?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin:<\/strong> Some of the most motivating feedback that I\u2019ve gotten are just from copywriters starting out that have reached out to me and said hey you just encouraged me to try a 30 day blog challenge! Or, I love watching what you\u2019re doing, and I want to do something like this but I don\u2019t know what yet.<\/p>\n<p>To me, I still kind of feel like I\u2019m that beginning copywriter that was just reaching out to people to get my name out there and to say hi and to tell people that I like them, so to get that feedback from others right now is insanely rewarding. That means so much to me, and I have every email that people have sent to me cheering me on, and it\u2019s been fun. My email list before the headline project was 2, and they were both me, from different addresses, and now I\u2019ve got about 100 people, which is 98 more than I had before! Or 99 I guess.<\/p>\n<p>Not a ton, but that\u2019s enough to keep me going and I get people writing back when I send out and it lets me know that I\u2019m not in a void. And I think that the part that I need to remember is that I\u2019m kind of doing this for me more than I\u2019m doing it for other people, so as far as the growth of my business, it\u2019ll come.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019ve already written some lines for a few people who have said, hey, I like what you\u2019re doing, and I\u2019ve got something and I\u2019m thinking of you. I\u2019ve had some people reach out to me\u2014some other writers that I respect\u2014asking if I\u2019ve got time to take some referral work. I love that! That wasn\u2019t the goal of the project, but it\u2019s amazing and I just, I love being a resource and a little source of motivation for people. To me, that\u2019s worth more than any amount of money I could ever make from it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>And where do you go from here? What does Day 101 look like?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin<\/strong>: More rum, but this time, happy rum. (laughs) Not to take away the pain. I\u2019m going to take a little bit of time and take my wife somewhere, and we\u2019re going to go out for a good dinner\u2014just me and her\u2014because I owe her the world for supporting me while I was doing this. I\u2019m probably going to step away from the computer for a week and probably shut down and just not write.<\/p>\n<p>I need a break, and I think I need time to process what I\u2019ve done. It\u2019s just starting to click in what this achievement actually is. I think I\u2019m in a little bit too deep right now but I need time to process it. It\u2019s going to feel good. I\u2019m going to enjoy getting my lunch hour back at work\u2014that\u2019s probably a biggy. I\u2019m gonna enjoy more family time, spend more time with my kids. Once I catch up on that, pay them all back for allowing me to do this, then it\u2019s time to take what I\u2019ve learned and put it into practice.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> So yeah, I was going to ask you next: How have you balanced this? Or, you know, just the business and the job and the headline project and the family? What has that looked like for you, especially since you\u2019re in the hard stage now and many of us can relate so, even though it\u2019s not ideal right now and you\u2019re going to make it up to everyone later, how do you make it work now so that you\u2019re not, you know, sleepless and your family doesn\u2019t hate you right now?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin:<\/strong> I don\u2019t, and they do. (laughs) There\u2019s even a few posts in the recap that I\u2019ve sort of just dialed this one in because I need to go and spend some time with my family. There was\u2014somewhere between 40 and 50\u2014somewhere after that recap, you can read it and see that I\u2019m getting burnt out at that time and things at home weren\u2019t great because of this. I wasn\u2019t active because I was spending so much time on the project. I reprioritized after that\u2014I tried to get everything done on the lunch hour\u2014as opposed to dividing it up and bringing stuff back home. When I started, the first post, I was 8 days ahead. So, I was writing day 9 when I was posting day 1.<\/p>\n<p>It wasn\u2019t until I think I hit about the 50 day mark that I actually cashed in one of those days\u2014I\u2019ve since cashed in 3\u2014I went camping with my kids and that was great. I realized that family always needs to come first. That\u2019s big. And this list will wait. And I even had people write to me\u2014and they were like, man, we don\u2019t care if you take 107 days to do this\u2014it\u2019s fine! We just like you watching you and once I sort of got that validation from people that it\u2019s okay and they understand that I\u2019m human, it let me put my guard down for a minute and be a dad first and foremost.<\/p>\n<p>So I\u2019m in a good spot now, again, I\u2019m happy that it\u2019s over and my wife is happy that\u2014well, it\u2019s not over yet, but my wife is happy that it\u2019s nearing the end. I\u2019m going to be glad that I did it. We even spoke before I started so she had a heads up that I was going to be working my butt off for a while, but I didn\u2019t balance it well at the beginning and that was a mistake on my part. I\u2019d say that was one of the bigger learnings was how amazing my family is and I need to spend more time with them.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Very cool. So, you mentioned that the headline project came out of the Accelerator. This may sound like a self-serving or a selfish question, but having gone through the Accelerator, what else did you get from the focus on establishing a foundation for your business that that program gives?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin:<\/strong> The networking was phenomenal and I think I was always a little hesitant to invest in myself\u2014you know, I\u2019d look at some of the courses and be like, wow, that\u2019s\u2014I need to work to get all that money back! But, every time I have invested in myself, it has paid for itself.<\/p>\n<p>So, do that first and foremost.<\/p>\n<p>Get the training that you need.<\/p>\n<p>And Rob, I think you were actually talking about that in the 50<sup>th<\/sup> [episode] that you guys just did. So, invest in yourself, it\u2019s worth it. Build a network, even a Slack group, just so you can get some feedback. You know, just being able to bounce your ideas off other writers. You know, hey, how\u2019s this? And, is this fine work? That\u2019s been great.<\/p>\n<p>And as far as just sort of the foundational&#8230; I guess I didn\u2019t know what I didn\u2019t know. And that was big. I knew that there was some stuff that I needed to get in place to build my business, but I didn\u2019t know what it was and I didn\u2019t know where to even begin searching for those resources because that just leads you down a different rabbit hole of other things that you don\u2019t know.<\/p>\n<p>So, being able to network with other people that have successfully done it and made the mistakes&#8230; and again, I\u2019ve started a business and failed it, I didn\u2019t know all the reasons it failed, but now I feel like I do. And you guys really just fast-tracked me with all of that. It would\u2019ve taken me months upon months of doing things wrong to ever even realize how far down I had gone without it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>Awesome. I am really curious because you were in the Accelerator and you have slightly different background, you\u2019ve been in this big challenge, you\u2019ve observed copywriters in all of these groups&#8230; what do you notice as far as a missed opportunity for copywriters today? As far as, maybe we can up our game or there\u2019s an opportunity that we\u2019re missing?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin:<\/strong> I\u2019d say that there are a few different thing. One is embracing the constraints that are put on you. I\u2019ve been listening to Jay Cuzno a lot and he\u2019s been talking a lot about writing in a box and that you\u2019re always writing in a box, you just might be in a box that you\u2019re not comfortable in, but you\u2019re always in a box whether it\u2019s the resources you\u2019ve got, or your deadline, or your clients, things that you have to say, things that you can\u2019t say&#8230; don\u2019t get too upset with that and just accept the fact that okay, this is what it is.<\/p>\n<p>Don\u2019t complain about it and just go forward and you\u2019ll find a creative way to do it. That\u2019s an important one. You just hear a lot of people trying to change a situation that they don\u2019t like to fit their style a little bit more and while I admit that you do need to find clients that are the right fit for you, sometimes accepting a new challenge that\u2019s uncomfortable is probably a good idea. I\u2019d say, reaching out and just talking to people. Building your network. I mean, <em>The Copywriter Club<\/em> has what, 4,000 people now? And you hear the same people over and over. Chime in! Speak up! Be heard. Develop a voice for yourself. You know, it\u2019s not like there\u2019s anything truly special about me. I just did it and it\u2019s been awesome for my career and awesome for my development and my confidence. Just talk. And reach out and talk to people.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>Awesome. I love what you\u2019ve done and I love the headline project. We should probably say that we\u2019ve stolen one of your lines that we\u2019re going to be using for our own tagline when we do our rebrand that we love. We\u2019re excited to see that actually in print some day! If people are looking to find you online, Justin, where do they go and how do they get the wrap on the headline project and what you\u2019re up to next?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019m at prettyflycopy.com; I\u2019m on the Twitter @prettyflycopy, and you can actually find the headline project at theheadlineproject.com, which is just the redirect to Pretty Fly Copy, and I\u2019m always in <em>The Copywriter Club<\/em> on Facebook!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>Thanks for hanging out with us Justin! We\u2019re excited to see you wrap up and celebrate with you, as well, in Florida, next month!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin: <\/strong>Looking forward to that!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Thanks Justin!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>Thanks Justin!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Justin: <\/strong>Alright, thank you!<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>For the 59th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, in-house copywriter and creator of The Headline Project, Justin Blackman, is in the house to share how writing 100 headlines a [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_coblocks_attr":"","_coblocks_dimensions":"","_coblocks_responsive_height":"","_coblocks_accordion_ie_support":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[2],"tags":[83,3],"class_list":["post-1009","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-podcast","tag-justin-blackman","tag-podcast"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v26.7 - 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