{"id":1203,"date":"2018-01-16T15:12:15","date_gmt":"2018-01-16T08:12:15","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/?p=1203"},"modified":"2018-10-20T08:25:54","modified_gmt":"2018-10-20T01:25:54","slug":"copywriter-ashlyn-carter-getting-things-done","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/copywriter-ashlyn-carter-getting-things-done\/","title":{"rendered":"TCC Podcast #68: Getting Things Done with Ashlyn Carter"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Copywriter and calligrapher Ashlyn Carter joins Kira and Rob for the In 68th episode of\u00a0<em>The Copywriter Club Podcast<\/em> and wow, does she deliver. In just a couple of years, she&#8217;s built a six-figure business that is growing like crazy. In this interview, she shares:<\/p>\n<p>\u2022 \u00a0how she went from agency consultant to PR publicist to freelance writer<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0what she learned from working with companies like Delta Airlines and Chick-Fil-A<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0the difference between working with corporate brands and personal brands<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0her struggle to do everything right, the repercussions, and how it led to the work she does today<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0the process she used to break away from the negative behaviors that tied her down<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0what happened when she chose a niche and had to fire some of her clients<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0how she had to adapt new processes as a business owner (as opposed to being a freelancer)<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0when she knew it was time to create a digital product<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0the questions she asks to keep her team focused on getting things done<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0how she organizes her time to get more done<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0her onboarding \u201cmagazine\u201d that sets boundaries and outlines processes<\/p>\n<p>And as we often do, we also asked about a couple of her non-copywriting hobbies. She sold us why she does calligraphy in addition to working as a copywriter, and the lessons she learned from dancing that have made her a better copywriter. To hear Ashlyn tell it, click\u00a0the play button below. Or scroll down to read the transcript.<\/p>\n<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_550\"><!--[if lt IE 9]><script>document.createElement('audio');<\/script><![endif]-->\n<audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-1203-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC068AC.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC068AC.mp3\">https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC068AC.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC068AC.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/?powerpress_pinw=1203-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC068AC.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"TCC068AC.mp3\">Download<\/a><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/thecopywriterclub.com\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<h3>The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:<\/h3>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/toggl.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Toggl<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/shop.cultivatewhatmatters.com\/collections\/powersheets?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">PowerSheets<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/strengths.gallup.com\/default.aspx?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Strengths Finder<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/gp\/product\/0465074871\/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=9325&amp;creativeASIN=0465074871&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;tag=brandstory00-20&amp;linkId=3a62e0b61f339fb8eac2273fca55015f\"><em>Rest<\/em> by Alex Pang<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/jennakutcher.com\/?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Jenna Kutcher<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.jameswedmoretraining.com\/?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">James Wedmore<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.90dayyear.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Todd Herman&#8217;s 90 Day Year<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.honeybook.com\/?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">HoneyBook<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/amyporterfield.com\/?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Amy Porterfield<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Anne-Lamott\/e\/B0034PEWO8\/ref=dp_byline_cont_book_1?ie=UTF8&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=9325&amp;creativeASIN=B00B1337GY&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;tag=brandstory00-20&amp;linkId=9acca0a72e90e81fc3fc877f70522c9e\">Anne Lamott<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Chuck_Close\">Chuck Close<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Malcolm-Gladwell\/e\/B000APOE98\/ref=sr_tc_2_0?qid=1516068634&amp;sr=1-2-ent?ie=UTF8&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=9325&amp;creativeASIN=B00B1337GY&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;tag=brandstory00-20&amp;linkId=9acca0a72e90e81fc3fc877f70522c9e\">Malcolm Gladwell<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/ashlynwrites.com\/\">AshlynWrites.com<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/kirahug.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Kira\u2019s website<br \/>\n<\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/www.brandstoryonline.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Rob\u2019s website<\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/kaleighmoore.us11.list-manage.com\/subscribe?u=7bdb50a2eb0d5b0a501cd1bf4&amp;id=9bf46b3e1d\"><br \/>\n<\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/groups\/thecopywriterclub\/\">The Copywriter Club Facebook Group<\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\"><br \/>\n<\/a>Intro:\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/soundcloud.com\/fauves\/content-for-now\">Content (for now)<\/a><br \/>\nOutro:\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/album\/gravity\/id304219081?i=304219099\">Gravity<\/a>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<h3>Full Transcript:<\/h3>\n<p><em>The Copywriter Club Podcast<\/em> is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co\/club.<\/p>\n<p><strong><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright wp-image-1218 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/01\/Ashlyn.jpg\" alt=\"Copywriter Ashlyn Carter\" width=\"300\" height=\"300\" srcset=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/01\/Ashlyn.jpg 300w, https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/01\/Ashlyn-150x150.jpg 150w, https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/01\/Ashlyn-50x50.jpg 50w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/>Kira:<\/strong> What if you could hang out with seriously copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea to inspire your own work? That\u2019s what Rob and I do every week at <em>The Copywriter Club Podcast<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> You\u2019re invited to join us episode 68 as we chat with copywriter Ashlyn Carter about what she learned managing crisis communications for brands like Delta and Chick-Fil-A, how choosing a niche has affected her business, the process she used to break her own negative behaviors, and how dancing has made her a better copywriter.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Ashlyn, welcome!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ashlyn:<\/strong> Thank you so much! So excited to get to talk to y\u2019all today.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>We\u2019re excited to have you!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>I know, I know! All right, so, Ashlyn, I think a good place to start is with your story, of course, and how you ended up getting into copywriting!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ashlyn:<\/strong> Yes, so it turns out that if you chronologically file magazines under your bed growing up, you\u2019re a shoe-in for a journalism major, so I went into college, like, no doubt what I wanted to be. I wanted to work in magazines. I wanted to do editorial stuff. So I was a print major in the journalism school in 2009, which, I\u2019m sure all of us who work in this industry\u2014that was a tough year for publications. So I promptly went back from my senior year, switched to the publications track, and knew that that\u2019s what I wanted to do. Right out of college, I worked as a traveling consultant for a women\u2019s organization. I worked the ultimate dream of working in\u2014I grew up in Alabama so the big city of Atlanta is where I wanted to be\u2014I wanted to work an agency life in Atlanta, so I did that! And was in agency for about four years all together and worked as a publicist as well for a chef and his slew of restaurants and then I moved on to working on my own! There are a lot of ups and downs and valleys but that, in a nutshell, is what happened.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>So I\u2019m curious about your agency experience. The kind of clients that you were working on, the kinds of projects you did there&#8230; was it PR focused? Was it copy focused? Tell us a little bit more about that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ashlyn:<\/strong> Yeah, that\u2019s a great question. So, I look back on agency life and I loved it so much. It\u2019s like an incubator of sorts and it teaches you so much. You know, I wasn\u2019t there that long all together, but it was a full service firm, so we did everything in-house, from public relations and pitching to more marketing-driven campaigns to experiential events for our clients and also, being in Atlanta, I was primarily on the Delta Airlines account, Chick-Fil-A, those kind of brands\u2014Coca Cola in-house. So those were what we were working on. And I did a lot of customer communication for Delta Airlines, so crisis communication there is really fun because you\u2019re planning for things like, what if an airplane crashes? What are we going to do? What\u2019s our game-plan? But also, high-value customer events, which was really fun planning those\u2014I really enjoyed it. But my favorite part, which I didn\u2019t even realize that it had a name, being copywriting\u2014it was just writing marketing words, right? But crafting the email communications that we would send out to SkyMiles and Value members and writing the website for the Delta.com relaunch when we did that a few years ago, and other SkyMiles program initiatives. That was primarily my wheelhouse and what I was working on, but I did get my feet wet with some pitching.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> So what did you learn from crisis communications at Delta and the customer communication during that time, working with these big brands like Delta, Chick-Fil-A, that you KNOW that you\u2019re using today in your own business?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ashlyn:<\/strong> Yes, so one of the biggest things that I think that agency teaches you, and I know that there\u2019s other fields that do this, like law, but tracking your time. I think as you move into an entrepreneurial space, our time is money! And when you have to bill time with the quarter hour and you do that year after year&#8230; I still keep timesheets for myself and my business. I\u2019ve used Toggl before\u2014there\u2019s tools out there\u2014but to me it\u2019s just easiest to write it down. And if nothing else, it keeps me accountable. And it helps me measure how long client projects take. That was one of the biggest lessons\u2014I do think there\u2019s like a post-traumatic period where you have like, I remember folding laundry at times after working in agency and being like, I bet I can do this in a .25, you know?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong><em>(laughs)<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Ashlyn: <\/strong>And that\u2019s not helpful for anybody. <em>(laughs) <\/em>But it did stick with me. So that was one thing that I learned. I also learned quickly how to voice switch back and forth which, I think is integral as a copywriter with multiple clients. You quickly have to be able to chameleon brands and brand voices. I didn\u2019t realize that that was part of my education until I had this student ask me one time, \u201cHow do YOU switch?\u201d and I was like, I have never really thought about that! You just switch. But that is something I think that I didn\u2019t realize that I learned. I learned a lot about project management and I think the biggest takeaway though is, how to behave as a business owner. Like I said, I can\u2019t speak highly enough for that agency\u2014it\u2019s, the name of it is Jackson Spalding\u2014it\u2019s a mid-sized communications firm\u2014locations all over the US, but based out of Atlanta. But the founders there just had an expectation of behaving that I just watched from afar and it really got engrained in me.<\/p>\n<p>We had our core values on our desk\u2014everybody did\u2014in a little frame, and one of them, I remember, was \u201cWe tell the truth.\u201d And I think that just sunk into me over time. And even now, as a business owner with a team, you know, it\u2019s so easy, especially online to you know, just shore up that email with a few extra things, I think, but I constantly remember that and I can\u2019t shake Jackson from my head and what he stood for and I do think that I learned that if you don\u2019t cast a crooked shadow, it\u2019s a lot easier to operate your business and go to bed at night without any regrets about the way that you\u2019re running things. There was just a lot that I learned from watching him. Those days were hard, though, I do think I got bosses that edited, you know, like any job where you have an editor and you get it torn apart and it\u2019s bleeding and it\u2019s like a murder scene, but you learn how to write.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>So I\u2019m curious if you saw a difference in working in PR with companies and then working with the celebrity chef, you know, where you\u2019re working with a personality. Is there a difference in the kind of things that you do for a personal brand versus a company brand? Or is it basically the same process?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ashlyn: <\/strong>That\u2019s a great question. So, when I switched from being more agency-based to being more in-house, yes. I think I learned what it\u2019s like to work for a personal brand, right? And that was everything that Ford would do, I was constantly watching, you know, how is he going to say-what is he going to say in this interview? Have I prepped him well for this? It kind of takes everything that was going on in a corporate setting and pushes it into just, one single focused point and that was this man. He was the brand. And all the restaurants were built around him. So I learned how to market a brand and a personal face, so that was really different for me. I\u2019d never really done anything like that before. It came with its own set of challenges, but yeah. I would say that that\u2019s the biggest difference: going from having the opportunity to have lots of different stories to tell to learning that you\u2019ve got to get really good at the stories that go with this person and making him\u2014pushing him forward as you know, the face of the brand\u2014and having a good relationship with him. Because I\u2019ll be honest, there were times when I had to, you know, (laughs) he\u2019s a classic entrepreneur type. There would times when he would say things and I was like, you can\u2019t do that. You should pump the breaks a little bit. So learning that too, at a younger age, I think I the leadership of having to step in and speak up when I saw something that, you know, this was something that I studied and I did know how to communicate with the media. Did not know my way around a chef\u2019s side or anything having to do with the kitchen. I had to learn all that. But, yeah!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>So you are now the face of your brand and as copywriters many of us are the face of our brand, so what did you learn from working with Ford as a celebrity chef that you know you\u2019re using now in your own business?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ashlyn: <\/strong>Oh, so much. And I think that comes when\u2014I didn\u2019t expect to be\u2014you know, you don\u2019t really want, or I didn\u2019t, I think that there\u2019s a lot of, especially copywriters or writers or wordsmiths, that\u2019s our medium, so things like video and showing our face\u2014we have to kind of adjust to. Or at least I did, for sure. But I do think I\u2019ve learned how to you know, the business was only as healthy as he was and I think that I\u2019ve learned that\u2014and being the personal face and the brand and the entrepreneur behind it all, there\u2019s a direct correlation with how I\u2019m doing and how my personal health and happiness and well-being is. And the bottom line of the business, you know, like, when I take care of myself, when I give myself what I need, then we\u2019re going to be in a better place, so I did kind of learn that from watching this business operate around\u2014crystalize around him and who he was and so&#8230; Again, like, I don\u2019t think that many of us, especially given our medium as copywriters, go into this wanting that. But it is something that is a by-product, especially in this day and age I believe.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> So that\u2019s a perfect segue into you know, hitting a wall in 2015, which you\u2019ve been very open about\u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ashlyn: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>\u2026hitting a wall, you know, anxiety, and going through a really rough time. So can you just speak to that? What led up to that? What caused it and what happened?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ashlyn: <\/strong>So I love at the beginning when you were like, \u201cTell us your story!\u201d I totally left all this out\u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong><em>(laughs)<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong><em>(laughs)<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Ashlyn:<\/strong> <em>(laughs)<\/em> \u2026because it opens up a bit of a can of worms, but I\u2019m totally open to talking about it because when I was in the midst of it all, I just kept thinking if I ever get through this, I\u2019m going to open my mouth about it because I thought I was the only one. So, being somebody that probably, as listeners can tell now, was a little bit Type A, like many of us are that work in marketing, I was always just a little bit bent toward perfectionism and just, getting it right. You know? You work in agency and you just nail it, constantly, day in and day out, for your clients. And then all throughout this, I had grown up as obviously one of those kids who was more attracted to words growing up, and so I remember sitting in the back of chemistry class, changing my handwriting because I didn\u2019t quite understand them all, and little by little, that led to me growing in love with the art of calligraphy.<\/p>\n<p>Throughout my time working in corporate communications, I would do calligraphy at night and it was just something to\u2014after typing all day\u2014it just felt good to make something, to create something. So I started taking on clients, so here I am, working a 9-5 and then going home and having this other side business and things were going okay, you know, I\u2019m juggling the balls in the air. And then my husband proposed and that was like the straw that broke the camel\u2019s back. Just one more thing to get right, get perfect, and knock it out of the park and I couldn\u2019t do it. So I started trying to measure the one thing that was within arm\u2019s reach, the one thing that I could, and that happened to be\u2014a terrible idea\u2014but what went into my body and what I could get out through exercise. So obviously, you can tell where this is going, before I knew it, I had full-on developed an eating disorder. And that, you know, like I said, I didn\u2019t see it coming and I didn\u2019t also understand the repercussions of what comes with that. I had always struggled just a little bit with anxiety and depression and I didn\u2019t think it was anything that anybody else didn\u2019t deal with, especially anybody that worked in a high-stress environment. But everybody was stressed. Everybody was running around like a chicken with their head cut off all the time. So I just thought that was the norm.<\/p>\n<p>This all culminates and develops and I remember, I got through our wedding day literally by the grace of God. I don\u2019t remember all of that day. I was just really sick with panic attacks and stress and social anxiety and my mother in law looked at me pretty soon after, and she said, \u201cAshlyn, what is more important to you, your job or your relationship with my son?\u201d And everybody was kind of shocked that she said something so bold to me, but to be honest, I needed to hear that, and I also couldn\u2019t give her the answer that she wanted, which was when I realized that I was pretty sick. And so, she helped me put in for medical leave of absence from work, which, I didn\u2019t know that was even a thing. I was terrified I was going to lose my job. So this girl who\u2019s obsessed with marketing and her job and working all the time and hustle and I lived and died by that, was ripped from me, so to speak. I was put into partial hospitalization, couldn\u2019t go to work, didn\u2019t have any of that, my marriage was on the brink, and it was in its infancy, and so it was this time where I got pulled away from everything and I really had to sit there and think about, okay, what do I want life to be? What\u2019s important to me? Yeah. Just kind of had had everything going for me growing up, I guess. I didn\u2019t grow up in a crazy family or anything like that, so I didn\u2019t see\u2014this was just very alarming to me and this was a moment where I just really had to sit there and think about things. And then I saw that there was this whole ecosystem of creative entrepreneurs and freelancers who worked for themselves. I started looking at that and thinking, you know what? Maybe one day I can do that. I know how to write, I have this calligraphy thing going on; I bet I could figure that out.<\/p>\n<p>I came home complaining about work after I went back to working for Ford, complaining one too many days, and Wes, my husband, looked at me and he was like, we\u2019re done. We\u2019re done with this. I can\u2019t listen to you complaining anymore. So I left a lot\u2014I think I had this plan to have you know, loads of clients before I left and went full-time and that was not the case for me. I always think that when we\u2019re looking on the horizon of leaving our current jobs and going full time, we think we need to have everything all together and I can talk about that because I don\u2019t think you need to, but yeah. I left and I think I still have to monitor and watch myself because I know my tendencies and I know that if I get really obsessed or I start working too much, it\u2019s not a healthy place for me to be. But like you said, Kira, it\u2019s one of those things that I am so, so happy to talk about because for so long, I thought it was the norm\u2014that people were just really stressed out and you just kind of made it. <em>(laughs)<\/em> But that\u2019s not true.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Yeah, I don\u2019t think you\u2019re alone in this, either, Ashlyn. You know, maybe there are writers who don\u2019t have the same degree of anxiety, or haven\u2019t you know, gotten to the brink, but all of us struggle sometimes with either perfectionism or too much work or all those things. So I\u2019m really curious\u2014you talked about how you had to put a lot of thought into what you really wanted, but were there questions or were there exercises that you were putting yourself through to really get to the answers that helped you figure out the way forward?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ashlyn:<\/strong> I love that question. So I happened upon this tool called PowerSheets and it, I mean, you can do exercises without a tool, but the questions it brought up like, \u201cWho do you want to be when you\u2019re 80 years old?\u201d and I was looking at the path my life was on\u2014this workaholic, so to speak, life and just seeing you know, the person that I would want to be is not, in any way, correlated to what I\u2019m creating now, so I\u2019m you know, especially after I worked through that and seeing the freedom that I\u2019ve found and being able to start a business and do the thing that I know I was called to do, which was help people with words. Writing has always come easily and after I saw that that was a sales mechanism that some people didn\u2019t understand&#8230; that\u2019s another thing. I moved into full-time, and I didn\u2019t even offer copywriting at first, but it was something that once I realized being in this space where there was creative entrepreneurial women trying to sell products primarily in the wedding industry that were not able to make sales and make ends meet and work for their families and bring in an income because that link was missing&#8230; so I was like that is what I want to do. I want to influence, I want to impact, and I want to help people with the gifts and the tools that just happen to be in my hands. So it was working through some of these PowerSheets questions and Laura Casey is the author of those and she has a great book. Those were the tools and the workbook so to speak, that I use. I did not have this epiphany where I had all these questions, to answer your question, Rob. I did use some tools. <em>(laughs)<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>No, that\u2019s helpful, I think, because again, at some level, a lot of us still suffer from the same kinds of problems and again, to a different degree. But knowing the questions or knowing the process for sort of thinking ourselves out of that I think, is really helpful.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ashlyn: <\/strong>Yes, so true.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Yeah, I\u2019m just wondering as you\u2019re talking through this, how you personally avoided it happening again, or getting to the brink again? Because especially yes, you moved from a stressful agency world into your own business, which could be flexible but we also know, when you\u2019re running your own business, it\u2019s also really intense, too. Especially early on when you\u2019re just figuring it out. So how do you continue to avoid it, especially we\u2019re all dealing with it? <em>(laughs)<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Ashlyn:<\/strong><em> (laughs)<\/em> I love it. Who is it\u2014I think Laurie? On Shark Tank? I think she\u2019s the one that was cited as saying, \u201cEntrepreneurs are the only ones crazy enough to leave 40 hours a week working for someone else to work 80 hours a week for ourselves.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> <em>(laughs)<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Ashlyn:<\/strong> Like, 100%. Right? I do think it\u2019s the best psychological experiment you can do on yourself\u2014like, starting a business. Because every day is an act in personal development and learning who you are. So some of the ways that I\u2019ve learned how to navigate that\u2014and I, it\u2019s like my side-hobby in business, learning about productivity and hacking into things that are so \u201cus\u201d\u2014right? Like that we\u2019re so created to do. And so I do like studying that. I think\u2014this is kind of a backwards way of getting into your question, but I am a big believer in getting into the StrengthsFinder test and I think that by learning what I am really good at, like, we should know about ourselves, right? But when you take a personality test like that and you see it sitting there in black and white, what you\u2019re good at and what you\u2019re not so good at, that gave me a whole lot of freedom to look at the things that I\u2019m not that great at and just, have some like\u2014I can give those up and that is totally okay.<\/p>\n<p>So I think that was the first correlation in freeing me up to seeing how I could \u201coutsource\u201d or just bring on some extra help, which, has ended up growing since, but in the very early days, that is one thing I saw as a way to stay healthy. If I just did what I was good at, and just got out there every day and showed up in the ways that I was gifted and didn\u2019t worry about the other stuff or gave it to someone else, then I was going to be able to stay in a place where I was healthy. Another thing that has helped immensely is a book, and I wish I could pronounce his last name. It\u2019s called \u201cRest\u201d and it\u2019s by Alex\u2014I think it\u2019s\u2014P-A-N-G is his last name. He\u2019s a researcher at Stanton and he has written about how rest impacts us as creatives and people in the workforce that tend to be bent towards a more creative vibe. And the book is\u2014oh my gosh\u2014it\u2019s totally one of the best that I read this calendar year. But he talks a lot about how different, I think I\u2019ve had nap-shame in the past, like, if I\u2019ll be exhausted&#8230; do you know what I\u2019m talking about?!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>Yep! <em>(laughs)<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Ashlyn: <\/strong>Exhausted!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> <em>(laughs)<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> I\u2019ve totally overcome my nap-shame recently. I am more than willing to take a nap in the middle of the day. <em>(laughs)<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> <em>(laughs)<\/em> I know what you\u2019re talking about, yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ashlyn:<\/strong> That\u2019s weird\u2014I had to read a book, apparently, Rob, to get through realizing that that\u2019s okay but the book is like, that\u2014and I\u2019ve taken a sabbatical now. Once I took my first sabbatical\u2014my husband took one too, arranged his work schedule so he could and now we\u2019re like, hey, every year we need this! This is really important. But I would recommend to anyone listening who kind of isn\u2019t sure how to figure out\u2014or maybe needs to sell their brain on it a little more\u2014because he is such a researcher and backs everything up with neurological findings, it shows you a lot of different ways to add in and weave in leisure that not only takes the steam off things, \u00a0or you know, gives you some release, but at the same time, in turn, makes us so much better at what we do anyway.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>Yeah, there\u2019s so much there. It\u2019s so interesting working from your strengths. But I want to jump forward now, because you\u2019ve gotten through that period of stress and hitting bottom and now you\u2019ve built a pretty incredible business for yourself. You shared some of the numbers with us and we\u2019re like, \u201cWow, you\u2019re doing awesome!\u201d So tell us about what you\u2019re doing today, how you found your niche, and the kinds of projects that you\u2019re working on.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ashlyn:<\/strong> Okay. So\u2014and I appreciate that Rob, I\u2019m always humbled and I think I have to be careful as somebody who measured numbers one way for a while that wasn\u2019t a good idea, I do have to watch myself now but I\u2019m just having so much fun serving an industry that I didn\u2019t see being served. So to talk about how that kind of happened, I think one of the first things that helped me hit the ground running\u2014I\u2019d never once considered myself a freelancer. And I think that I look at a lot of writers and they move into working for themselves and they call themselves freelance writers, or freelance copywriters, and at least for me, I needed the mindset that I was a business owner. I was an entrepreneur. I was a business owner. And that helped me approach things with a little bit more of a vision-casting mind instead of so focused on project-based. Especially coming from an agency, you can take the girl out of an agency, but still, client work is my security blanket, right?<\/p>\n<p>It feels good, I know I can do it, but you do have to pivot a little bit. I think that was one thing that I did and then another thing that I can\u2019t go without saying is, I had somebody look at me and what I could do and see something in me, see potential in me and trust me with a big job at a time when I was new in my business and now I just want to be that for somebody else one day. The story I\u2019m eluding to is, I was at a conference for creative entrepreneurs and one of the women there, her name is Jenna Kutcher and she has a pretty sizable brand and internet business, and she was a photographer but has since recently moved into education, but we\u2019re sitting there over jalapeno margaritas\u2014where all good things start, right? We\u2019re sharing our stories and we really connected, and after that conference, like a month later, she emailed me and she was like, hey, I need somebody to help me with email copy, I saw that you did that for Delta, would you be interested in making the jump over to this? It\u2019s for an online course. This was her first program that she launched but she saw the talents that I had in one capacity and how they would translate over so I say that because when people ask me you know, what works? What didn\u2019t? You know, paying a few thousand dollars to be in front of people at that level before I was ready to changed my business. You know, that was a very expensive conference, but I knew by going there that it would be a small group of people and I could land time with women that I not only looked up to, but would be able to pull things out of me that I could not see for myself. So I\u2019m a big believer in doing that. Yeah. I think that was a big game-changer for me as well.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> That\u2019s so important too, I think, and I\u2019m glad that you shared that. Just being in the right room, showing up in the room, and we always say, feeling like the dumbest person in the room, Rob and I are big fans of that. We\u2019ve joined masterminds to be that person where we\u2019re like WOAH, everyone is so far ahead of us! And then you build relationships, and they pull you up with them and you rise. So I think that\u2019s a great example. I want to back up a little bit\u2014what you were saying about starting your business and not viewing yourself as a freelancer and viewing yourself as business owner is so important so I want to dig into that a little bit more because I\u2019m wondering what copywriters who maybe are viewing themselves as freelancers now, what shifts they can make, beyond just the mindset, what they can actually do to make that change that may even impact their mindset and help them view themselves as business owners instead?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ashlyn: <\/strong>I love it. And I know that you\u2019re both Team Niche, so I know that I can lean into talking about that. At least for me, my experience, and I know that there are some generalists out there who rock it, but for me, what I found was that when I fully allowed myself to go into one service sector of copywriting, things blew up. I think it sounds so easy for me to say now, that was terrifying! And I went in kicking and screaming. So I\u2019m doing copywriting and I also was doing calligraphy and doing all the writings right? Like, you name it. Editorial stories? You\u2019ve got it. Blog posts? Here I am. Like, I was doing everything. And I had two people\u2014two coaches specifically\u2014one friend and one coach look at me and say Ashlyn, just lean into the copy thing\u2014and, in that, just lean into it for women\/female creative entrepreneurs and then, maybe just like, focus on the launch thing for a while. You seem to really enjoy the strategy of that.<\/p>\n<p>What happens if you call yourself a launch copywriter?! And I remember sitting there over breakfast with my friend Christina and telling her, that is a TERRIBLE idea. Like, what happens when the industry shifts or pivots\u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong><em>(chuckles)<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Ashlyn:<\/strong> \u2026and I have built this brand off this?! So you know, little by little, over time, that\u2019s the beauty of what we do as entrepreneurs. Let\u2019s try it! Let\u2019s go for it. And that is like, when I stuck a stake in the ground and said these are the people I work with\u2014and I had to break up with a lot of clients that I was on retainer with\u2014but when I really became the go-to girl of a certain niche, I like it\u2014I think you\u2019re in the right direction when you name people to others\u2014and they don\u2019t know who you\u2019re talking about. And let me explain what I\u2019m saying. I was just at an event this past weekend for entrepreneurs and I kind of like that sometimes, when I mention my clients, and they are HUGE for the people that they serve, like, they\u2019re big brands for them. But when I mention them to some other people, they\u2019re like, I have no idea who that is. And I\u2019m okay with that. You know? Like, I\u2019m okay being really tiny and laser focused for that group of people. So that is one thing that I would say helped me transition. Instead of being a freelancer\u2014jack of all trades, give me the job, I\u2019m going to get it done\u2014just being like, playing the long game, playing five years, ten years down the road. That is something that changed me. And another thing that I didn\u2019t see coming, but a lesson that I learned along the way was the beauty in the client process.<\/p>\n<p>I work in an industry that lends itself to very high end, luxurious, experienced type of products or services. I mean, these people are serving\u2014like, they shower them with gifts. Right? They just\u2014the level of care and high touch that they give to their clients is out of this world. And so, coming from agency, I\u2019m like what? We just send the deliverables to the client\u2014there\u2019s nothing&#8230; like, what\u2019s this? But little by little, looking at this and thinking okay, if I want to charge like, BMW prices, I\u2019ve got to give that BMW level of service that they are doing. So, starting to see how I could adopt pieces of my niche into my own process and make them more comfortable was fun. Like, how, looking at how do they do sales? And how do they get someone through their quote on quote sales funnel that they don\u2019t call that&#8230; but how do they do that? And then once they have brought someone under their brand as a client, how do they serve them? What are they doing along the way? Client gifts are big in the wedding industry so how am I doing that? How am I off-boarding them in ways that they\u2019re comfortable with? The more I stepped into being a business owner, the more that those things were very different from how I had done things as a freelancer.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> And I know there are a lot of ways to measure your business and we touched on the fact that money isn\u2019t everything\u2014it\u2019s maybe not even the most important number. But choosing a niche has had a very significant financial impact on your business as well. Do you mind sharing maybe not necessarily the actual number, but the effect that it\u2019s had?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ashlyn:<\/strong> My first year, I did not take home what I made in corporate. The end of the first year was when I started to make that pivot and it went to a multiple six-figure business the next year. Like, it totally changed it. Like I like how you said, Rob, like yes. Sometimes James Wedmore talks about\u2014I know he\u2019s spoken about this with the three of us but\u2014he also said, at the conference I was at this weekend, no, it\u2019s not important, but it sure is a dang good measurerer and bench mark for you. But even seeing influence be measured, I guess, when I really buckled down and wanted to serve one niche, the stories just pop off the page now. You know, they say do what you know, write what you know, do what you love. When I started serving people who\u2014let\u2019s be honest\u2014are not too far off from me, then, the anecdotal evidence of their stories means more to me and I can measure my influence by when I\u2019m able to read some of the stories of our clients who are able to pay for you know, in vitro whatever, because they can\u2019t get pregnant. I\u2019m like, you\u2019re not that far removed from me. Stories just mean more than these random clients that I have. It meant a little more because it hit closer to home when I started niching down.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> So I\u2019m wondering, you know, while we\u2019re talking about money and growth, how you get paid as far as the way that your business is broken down because I know you still have those two businesses\u2014calligraphy and then copy\u2014and then within there, you have different programs and courses, so again, you don\u2019t have to share the numbers for each piece of it, but like, what are the different parts of your business today?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ashlyn:<\/strong> Sure, so I think\u2014and I\u2019m always comfortable saying this, especially with copywriters\u2014the calligraphy, at least in 2017, was only 12% of the business income. So it\u2019s really not a big part, but I do it for a couple of reasons. One, like I said it kind of gets my feet wet still on what is it like to be B2C? Because a lot of my students and clients are B2C. So what is it like to market to those brides in a really saturated industry? The other reason that I won\u2019t let it go out the door and fall to the wayside completely is just because I know myself and I know how I work and I know that I need the artistry and that kind of stress-reliever. But it is just about 12%. And then the breakdown of the rest of it&#8230; We took on a lot of 1-on-1 clients this past year and I say we because this past year, in March, I brought on two associate copywriters and just trained them up in my system and the workflow that I was serving clients with, and they\u2019ve done an unbelievable job. So I was able to really focus on launch copywriting. That is a part of the income as well, but then one thing\u2014and I think there\u2019s always that question about digital products\u2014when should I create a digital product? When am I ready? And again, I could just speak from experience but what I saw was that once the amount of inquiries becomes more than you\u2019re able to take on and you\u2019re not able to see these people who are totally deserving of the process but they were not in a place where they could afford it, and at the same time, I knew that if I could just put the tools in their hands, they would be able to get far more out of it.<\/p>\n<p>So by starting to launch a digital product and teach my copywriting\u2014the process of writing a website\u2014I inadvertently launched a course. And the first time I did it was August 2016\u2014wasn\u2019t expecting really anything big, and I think that starting 2017, I remember looking out on the cusp of the year, looking out and thinking, okay, I have been marketing and creating revenue streams for so many people but I\u2019m not doing it for myself. So 2017 has been just a banner, game changer year because I went in thinking okay, I\u2019m going to have to show up regularly, I\u2019m going to have to email my email list, like what?! What is that? I have to blog regularly\u2026 <em>(laughs)<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>What?! <em>(laughs)<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Ashlyn:<\/strong> Yeah, like, create freebies, do all of these things that I\u2019m doing for everybody else, but started doing them for me. So all of those things just really lifted the business financially and have enabled us to like I said, bring on a team. But you know, next year, one of them is going to be able to come on full time. I\u2019m so excited and it\u2019s so fun when you start getting to a place where you\u2019re able to play big and watch people walk into their own callings and giftings and what they\u2019re good at and like we were talking about earlier, I can just stay in my strengths zone and we\u2019re able to do stuff like that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> I\u2019m really curious to ask about your team and working with your team. You\u2019re basically creating a micro agency and we\u2019ve recently had guests that did that and sort of had this nightmare scenario and ended up closing everything down in, you know, three years because they found that they weren\u2019t focused on the things that they love. So tell us a little bit about how you\u2019re building your team and how you\u2019re doing it so that you focus on the things that you LIKE to do, and you\u2019re not necessarily just taking on all the administrative tasks so that somebody else can do the fun stuff?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ashlyn:<\/strong> Got it. And I have to say, Rob, just being under your tutelage, the both of you, it was that talk that we had where I think I did realize like, hold the phone, I don\u2019t think I want to grow this thing into like, a huge mini-agency, right? So I think that you know, grow slow, grow intentionally, but I do think that it\u2019s hard. And I am happy to say that I did not do everything well when I was growing a team. I guess it was just me, but I\u2019ve always heard, hire before you\u2019re ready, but like, how? I could not figure out, like, it wasn\u2019t the time when I\u2019m drowning, reaching out for help&#8230; like, I just, you know, come on in, hit the ground, and go. Like, that was my experience with growing a team. There wasn\u2019t a whole lot of time to take five weeks away and ramp up everybody really slowly and intentionally, but I do think that I was always writing down the process, like even our copywriting clients, as varied as they are, they\u2019re still a process. Right? They\u2019re on-boarded, they get this email, all the emails are templated out, all the way through the process, wash, rinse, repeat. Do it again.<\/p>\n<p>So I had that system really well-honed before I brought anybody on, so I would tell anybody who\u2019s looking at potentially you know, having someone under you help service your brand. If you\u2019re looking to have them potentially take on something soup-to-nuts one day, turn it into&#8230; I think, sometimes we think copywriting is different. You know, it\u2019s\u2014it can\u2019t be turned into a system. But I really think it can. There\u2019s two \u201cproducts\u201d that we offer. One is Brand Story, which is essentially copywriting coupled with a brand excavation first. I just realized that we really needed that brand excavation to write a good website. And then the other is a Launch Copywriting Path, and that is a lot more varied with what goes into it because you know, some people are doing PLF\u2019s now, some people are doing webinar launches, but all that to say, there is still a process both ways. So creating that, before I brought anybody on, was a big help. And then I am a big fan of Todd Herman and the 90 Day Year, but all of that to say I\u2019m about to say the three questions that I ask my team every day but I just don\u2019t want anybody to think that I made these up because they\u2019re really brilliant and I did not. But asking, checking in with your team, asking what they did yesterday, what they\u2019re doing today, and what\u2019s holding them up. What do they need to make that happen? As a leader, realizing if I can just let them go and do their thing but give them what they need, that has been a really big help in letting them go and do their thing and know that I trust them 100%. But I want to make sure that because it is my brand, my eyes are on everything at the end of the day.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>Oh, yeah. I want to take Todd Herman\u2019s program. I feel like I\u2019m ready for it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ashlyn: <\/strong>It\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>You mentioned your breakout year in 2017 and you mentioned emailing your list regularly, creating lead magnets, doing all the things that we tell our clients to do but doing it in your own business. What else does it take to create this big year? Is there something else that you could share with us, especially for anyone who is listening and is like 2018!! It\u2019s going to be the year that I go big.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ashlyn:<\/strong> Yes. I think it\u2019s simple things, too. One of the biggest game changes this year was batching my days and my time. We\u2019ve talked a little bit about time and productivity but it helped me so much to be able to compartmentalize days. Like, if we\u2019re talking about looking at your business more as a business owner and playing for the long game instead of just being a jack of all trades freelancer, I had to start looking at, every day had to serve a purpose.<\/p>\n<p>So, and I can share what they are. I do marketing Mondays, I do client work Tuesdays, product development Wednesdays, meetings on Thursdays, and then finance Fridays, also systems on Fridays, but the literation of finance Fridays is just too good. But that really helped me start looking at, you know, like, when an opportunity would come in, you know, my bookkeeper needed something great! That goes on Fridays to deal with.<\/p>\n<p>So I can say, like, context switching is such a real thing, but I\u2019m able to stay honed in and focused on Mondays, creating that lead magnet, writing that email, writing the blog post, scheduling out any social media posts that are going to go out. I can just focus on one thing at a time. And I think that no, it\u2019s not a perfect system, especially with client work and the launch sphere of all things, right? There\u2019s going to be days besides Tuesdays that I\u2019m going to have to work on it. There\u2019s going to be Saturday nights where I\u2019m going to have to work on stuff right? But that was able to give me a framework and that was a big game-changer in helping me play big. Because I got to, yeah! I didn\u2019t just show up at work every day like, okay, what clients need to be serviced today? I was like, if it\u2019s not Tuesday, you know, we respond to their emails, but the bulk of the work waits and I also, I do want to say I\u2019m very up front with my clients in telling them that and I have a whole onboarding magazine for anybody that comes on and I explain you know, for anybody like are clients going to be okay with that? My experience has been that they are, as long as I am very, very up front. I\u2019ve even blogged about it and stuff. So, for anybody that is looking to ever work with me, hopefully I put enough out there that it\u2019s not a shock that they\u2019re going to have a day where I work on them for about twelve hours. But, yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Okay, so I\u2019m just going to jump in here and ask what does that look like? The on-boarding magazine? And what are you saying to them to prepare them for the \u201cHey, I only work Tuesdays and I want to make sure you\u2019re cool with this?\u201d How do you say that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ashlyn:<\/strong> Yeah, so earlier when I was talking about looking at things that the wedding industry was doing, this is a prime example. This whole idea of an onboarding, beautiful magazine&#8230; so, I mean, I say magazine; it\u2019s a PDF that we send them in their onboarding along with\u2014we send them it digitally and then the client gets it in the mail at the same time. But the magazine does include how their process is going to work, the steps of it, just so I\u2019m really up front with that, and then I frame it in kind of the copy and the language that I use is like, every good relationship is built on solid communication so here\u2019s how we\u2019re going to be able to communicate.<\/p>\n<p>I say my office hours, I say how they can get in touch with me, how they can schedule meetings, your big day is going to be on Tuesdays. Each package that I do is a four week package and it\u2019s going to be on Tuesdays and those are YOUR days. I only take on, for me, one 1-on-1 client per month\u2014my associates have theirs\u2014but those are your days. You can contact me anytime that day, I will be writing for you, but otherwise, during the week\u2014that\u2019s why I need your rounds of edits to come in at a certain point, so I\u2019m just really up front through that. And I explain how they CAN give me edits, and I also kind of give them a little tour around the CRM system that we use. I use a tool called HoneyBook, but I give them a video tour of that\u2014I want to make sure they feel really comfortable working in that as well.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>The thing I love about this is that you\u2019re taking control. You assume that you\u2019re the one in charge, whereas so many copywriters feel like the client runs the meetings or is in charge. And again, we\u2019ve talked about this in the past, but just thinking through this, it takes some guts to play at that level!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ashlyn: <\/strong>I love that, Rob. It is! You\u2019re assuming a leadership position. They\u2019re looking at you to be the leader. I think once that cooked in my head, I was like, they\u2019re not the leader in this, like, I am! I need to step up to the plate and do this thing right. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> So where does your business go from here? As any good type A writer would do, you\u2019re planning for the next year, you know you want to accomplish some things. What are you going to be doing in the next 12 months to change your business?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ashlyn: <\/strong>Yeah, I really want to start showing up for the tribe and the audience I already have gathered. I think that sometimes that\u2019s hard. I think my husband sometimes was looking at how fast we grew, which, i want to say that because we so often look at you know, the struggle of getting clients and that those involved tear filled nights and crying in your pillow but like, growing fast is just as hard. It sounds like, I always think of Mean Girls, when one of them is looking at her cuticles\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> <em>(laughs)<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Ashlyn:<\/strong> And she\u2019s like \u201cMy cuticles suck\u201d and you\u2019re like, okay, sweetheart, that must be bad&#8230; but I think it brings with it its own set of problems so when my husband was looking at that you know, and asking questions, it hit me. It\u2019s been hard. It\u2019s been a year of a lot of growth because I\u2019m a marketer. I have always known how to market and that\u2019s been my focus, so it\u2019s the other stuff that I\u2019ve had to learn from the ground up because i had no experience in customer service, or being a CEO, you know? Like that was the stuff that was completely foreign and painful to learn the hard way.<\/p>\n<p>So I do think that this is a year where I want to recognize that and really focus on showing up for the students and the audience that I already have gathered. I have loved being able to serve people who aren\u2019t able for that 1-on-1 level price point with tools to help them. So this is the first year I launched a copywriting template shop, which has\u2014I really just wanted to create an entry point for people who couldn\u2019t afford my course or couldn\u2019t afford the one on one; that has been so fun to see people be able to use. So I want to focus on that. And then continue to say no to good to make room for great! Which, I think that is continually learning how to look at those opportunities but realize, what is at stake? What\u2019s the payoff? And weigh them out. That\u2019s something I want to get better and better at with each passing year.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> So we often ask what opportunities you see for copywriters in 2018, especially, you know, you\u2019re in the trenches, working with clients and building this business. What do you see for us? What are we missing?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ashlyn:<\/strong> Okay, so y\u2019all heard me ask James Wedmore this, I believe, but I also asked it at Amy Porterfield\u2019s event and it is su\u2026 or, no, I asked it in a different setting. But you two have heard me kind of freak out a little bit about the launch industry and as so many of us, as copywriters, we are the strategy and the brains behind a lot of a launch funnel. So that is one thing that I have freaked out about in the past. Like, what\u2019s going to happen when this -you know, when we\u2019re wise to the webinar pitch and when things start shift and undulating? And I think I\u2019ve had the past week, a gear shift in how I think about that and I\u2019m starting to look at it as maybe this is our chance as copywriters to do it differently. Like, we have mastered the principles. We know how to sell. We know the psychological techniques that go into different things. We know it. So this is our chance to step in and be leaders and do it differently because we don\u2019t have that learning curve of having to learn how to sell, right? We already know how to do that. So I think that\u2019s the biggest opportunity I see, is us stepping into a leadership position. And we call ourselves creative entrepreneurs but I think a lot of times we recycle things, maybe inadvertently, but I think we get to step into a place of ownership with that and really get to be creative with the things that we know really, really well.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> And I have to ask you because I was stalking you like crazy before this conversation about your background in dance. You grew up as a dancer; how has that influenced the way that you run your business today?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ashlyn: <\/strong>Love that. So a couple of things. I think there\u2019s an Ann Lamott quote about \u201cJust get your butt in the chair every day\u201d when it comes to writing, and Chuck Close has some similar quote where he talks about, you just\u2014you don\u2019t look for inspiration, you just show up. And I think every year after year, you just go to the ballet barre and you do technique class and you do warm ups. And then you move on to rehearsal and creating and improv class and all that kind of stuff but every day, you do the exercises day in, and day out. You just, you put in that time. And I know that there\u2019s\u2014I think it\u2019s the Berlin Study that Malcolm Gladwell talks about in Outliers, but the four hours a day principle. You know, if you practice, you\u2019re going to move from apprentice to expert if you practice something for like, four hours a day, so it adds up to 10,000 hours over a decade or whatever. Putting in that little effort, even just as a copywriter, like, I think I learned with ballet, I didn\u2019t necessarily have the overly arched feet and the hyper-extended legs, but I was going to study like crazy and I was going to have stage presence and I was going to sell myself in other ways. So I think now, looking at how that relates to being a copywriter, I\u2019m going to study it like crazy. I\u2019m going to read the greats, I\u2019m going to figure this thing out, and then I\u2019m going to show up and just do the work. I\u2019m just going to go to ballet class every day. You know? And over time, that\u2019s going to lend itself to opportunities to be creative.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> I love that advice. It\u2019s inspirational knowing what you\u2019ve done with your business in the past, and how quickly you\u2019ve grown and the kind of business that you\u2019re running, and yet, still taking the time to step back and say, there\u2019s still practice here to be done, there\u2019s still things to learn, there\u2019s still ways to grow differently, again, I feel like you should be doing the podcast here Ashlyn, and I\u2019m learning from you! You know? It\u2019s one of those\u2014really good advice.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ashlyn: <\/strong><em>(laughs)<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> <em>(laughs)<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Ashlyn: <\/strong>No, I remember the first time I talked to y\u2019all. I was so- I just, I appreciate so much that there was not a forum for people like us until you two stepped out and created it and I\u2019m just really grateful for that. Things felt very alone until <em>The Copywriter Club<\/em> popped up. So.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Well, we\u2019re thrilled that you\u2019re a part of that. So, if people want to connect with you, you know, learn more about what you\u2019re doing, or just reach out and get to know you better, where should they go online to find you?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ashlyn:<\/strong> Yes, you can find me at ashlynwrites.com and I\u2019m also on the social medias at @ashlynscarter.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Awesome. Thanks Ashlyn, this has been fantastic advice and information.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Thank you Ashlyn!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ashlyn: <\/strong>Thank y\u2019all so much; I really appreciate it!<\/p>\n<p>You\u2019ve been listening to<em> The Copywriter Club Podcast<\/em> with Kira Hug and Rob Marsh. Music for the show is a clip from Gravity, by Whitest Boy Alive, available on iTunes. If you like what you\u2019ve heard, you can help us spread the word by subscribing in iTunes and by leaving a review. For show notes, a full transcript, and links to our Facebook community, visit thecopywriterclub.com. We\u2019ll see you next episode.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Copywriter and calligrapher Ashlyn Carter joins Kira and Rob for the In 68th episode of\u00a0The Copywriter Club Podcast and wow, does she deliver. In just a couple of years, she&#8217;s [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_coblocks_attr":"","_coblocks_dimensions":"","_coblocks_responsive_height":"","_coblocks_accordion_ie_support":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[2],"tags":[91,3],"class_list":["post-1203","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-podcast","tag-ashlyn-carter","tag-podcast"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v26.7 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>TCC Podcast #68: Getting Things Done with Ashlyn Carter - The Copywriter Club<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Copywriter Ashlyn Carter on her journey from publicist to copywriter, getting things done, her struggle with perfection, how choosing a niche changed her business, creating processes as a business owner and why she does calligraphy in addition to copywriting. 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