{"id":1286,"date":"2018-02-08T16:04:50","date_gmt":"2018-02-08T09:04:50","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/?p=1286"},"modified":"2018-10-20T21:50:00","modified_gmt":"2018-10-20T14:50:00","slug":"copywriters-social-media-va-brit-mcginnis","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/copywriters-social-media-va-brit-mcginnis\/","title":{"rendered":"TCC Podcast #75: What Copywriters Need to Know about Social Media and Working with a VA with Brit Mcginnis"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Copywriter Brit McGinnis steps out of the club&#8217;s Facebook group to join Rob and Kira for the 75th episode of\u00a0<em>The Copywriter Club Podcast<\/em>. (Don\u2019t look now but we\u2019re three quarters of the way to 100.) We cover a lot of ground in this wide ranging interview, including:<\/p>\n<p>\u2022 \u00a0how Brit went from journalism to virtual assistant to social media and copywriter<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0what her business looks like today (typical clients, typical projects)<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0why you might want to work as a virtual assistant<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0what you need to know BEFORE you start working with a virtual assistant<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0her thoughts on starting and growing a great online community<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0how to get the most out of our Facebook group<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0the rules of Facebook etiquette that she wishes everyone knew<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0what copywriters should do to step up their social media game<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0why we should be thinking about Pinterest more than we probably do<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0what\u2019s going on with Facebook ads (the ad glut)<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0how her business has changed since joining The Copywriter Accelerator<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0what copywriters who are struggling with boundaries could be doing differently<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0why she stepped into her role as \u201cthe horror copywriter\u201d<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0her advice to copywriters who are thinking about their personal brands<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0what we need to know about the cannabis market<\/p>\n<p>We also asked Brit about the mistakes she\u2019s seen copywriters make in their careers\u2014stuff you definitely don\u2019t want to be doing. We say this a lot, but it\u2019s yet another good one.\u00a0Click\u00a0the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.<\/p>\n<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_5458\"><!--[if lt IE 9]><script>document.createElement('audio');<\/script><![endif]-->\n<audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-1286-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC075BM.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC075BM.mp3\">https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC075BM.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC075BM.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/?powerpress_pinw=1286-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC075BM.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"TCC075BM.mp3\">Download<\/a><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/thecopywriterclub.com\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<h3>The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:<\/h3>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.blackbowcommunications.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">BlackBow Communications<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.imdb.com\/title\/tt0804503\/\">Madmen<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecopywriteraccelerator.com\">The Copywriter Accelerator<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\">Twitter<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/_allhallowskat?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Kat Wells<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/brenebrown.com\/?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Brene Brown<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/play.na.leagueoflegends.com\/en_US\">League of Legends<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/channel\/UC58IKuPHnZkdCZ6T5mSRGCg\">Night Mind<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/medium.com\/@britmcginnis\/the-abcs-of-cannabis-f69f9893fba6\">The ABCs of Cannibis<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/kirahug.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Kira\u2019s website<br \/>\n<\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/www.brandstoryonline.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Rob\u2019s website<\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/kaleighmoore.us11.list-manage.com\/subscribe?u=7bdb50a2eb0d5b0a501cd1bf4&amp;id=9bf46b3e1d\"><br \/>\n<\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/groups\/thecopywriterclub\/\">The Copywriter Club Facebook Group<\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\"><br \/>\n<\/a>Intro:\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/soundcloud.com\/fauves\/content-for-now\">Content (for now)<\/a><br \/>\nOutro:\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/album\/gravity\/id304219081?i=304219099\">Gravity<\/a>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<h3>Full Transcript:<\/h3>\n<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright wp-image-1289 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/02\/Brit-McGinnis.png\" alt=\"Copywriter Brit McGinnis\" width=\"300\" height=\"300\" srcset=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/02\/Brit-McGinnis.png 300w, https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/02\/Brit-McGinnis-150x150.png 150w, https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/02\/Brit-McGinnis-50x50.png 50w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That\u2019s what Kira and I do every week at <em>The Copywriter Club Podcast<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> You\u2019re invited to join the club for episode 75 as we chat with copywriter Brit McGuiness about leaving journalism and embracing the strange; what she does for her social media clients; how to not suck at Pinterest; and why she owns two Texas Chainsaw Massacre t-shirts!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>Welcome Brit!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Hey Brit!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit: <\/strong>Hello; good morning. Welcome.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Great to have you here as one of our team members, and the \u201cface\u201d in the Facebook community: the community manager! So we\u2019re really excited, about to learn more about your strange life and Texas Chainsaw Massacre t-shirts! To start, Brit, can you just share your story? How did you end up creating Black Bow Communications?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit:<\/strong> Absolutely, and first let me say I\u2019m sorry for saying \u2018welcome\u2019 just now; I\u2019m very excited to be here, so that just stumbled out!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> <em>(Laughs). <\/em>It\u2019s okay!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> We\u2019re <em>so<\/em> glad to be here on your podcast too, Brit.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong><em> (Laughs.)<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>That\u2019s kind of awesome.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit: <\/strong><em>(Laughs.)<\/em> Well, I love working with podcasts and it\u2019s always fun to see and hear the millions of different intros. In fact\u2014segue\u2014I ended up listening to podcasts all throughout college, and I actually started wanting to work in public radio. So, I took up a great internship there in my college, all the while working in journalism, and just wanting to learn and absorb everything I could about different kinds of media. The first copywriting-based thing I really took on was when I lived in Ireland for a little while in junior year of college. I worked with a media company that managed the content and social media for the Irish government, of all places. And I had this underlying conflict of, \u201cWow, I love creating content; I love being a journalist, but, I was also the person who would stay up late and play with HootSuite in my dorm room, so, it was always a question of how do I reconcile all of these different interests.<\/p>\n<p>And, I really only thought of copywriting as something I could do honestly when I started watching <em>Mad Men<\/em> in senior year of college. That was about peak <em>Mad Men<\/em>. And I watched that, and I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, that\u2019s kind of the perfect marriage of art and content and crunching numbers\u201d, and all that, but I still didn\u2019t work in advertising up until about three years ago. I\u2019d spend a lot of time floating as a virtual assistant, and just again, basically trying to learn, trying to find what I wanted to do, all the while just trying to learn different disciplines because I wanted to give things a chance. I wanted to learn all these different things. So once I made the leap to copywriting, which was right around the time I joined T<em>he Copywriting Accelerator<\/em>, oddly enough, I was ready and I had all these different cross-discipline skills. So it\u2019s great, and I\u2019m really happy to be a copywriter now, but I\u2019ve had a very, very windy path.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>What does your typical client look like today, Brit, and what\u2019s the typical thing you\u2019re doing for them, you know, whether it\u2019s copy or social media management; what does that look like?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit: <\/strong>Well a lot times people come to me asking for advice or guidance on how to\u2014as weirdly enough with my own path\u2014asking how to do I marry my desire to make content or, my desire to have a really connected brand, with this need to promote it; with this need to have a presence&#8230;. Basically, what do I need to do within the basic requirements do really just do what I want to do? A lot of times that bloggers; a lot of times that entrepreneurs. I\u2019ve had very small companies come to me. I\u2019m looking to work with bigger companies all the time just because I want to push myself, but a lot of times I find that just smaller companies and even solo-preneurs are the most eager to marry the technical skill with the artistic skill, for lack of a better phrase.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>Brit, I\u2019d like to hear about your time as a virtual assistant, and what you learned from that experience that you\u2019ve carried into your business today.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit: <\/strong>Well, it\u2019s a great career! <em>Laughs<\/em>. If people want to do a post-college career or if they want to take, basically, try \u201ccopywriting lite\u201d I very much suggest being a virtual assistant for a little while, or hanging out with virtual assistants. I actually want to develop resources in 2018 on how to work practically with a virtual assistant. But, I loved it; I was very lucky to work with a community of mommy bloggers and health bloggers, just really be coached into how do you run an online business effectively by these enthusiastic, passionate women. It was 97% women; that whole niche, it\u2019s fantastic. But they were so interested in just making things work, and they\u2019re the most growth-hackery of all growth-hackers. They were always sharing tools; they were always sharing advice; they were sharing updates, just talking really analytically about technical updates and it was inspiring. It was inspiring to see people who were so interested in the process and so interested in helping each other and, you know, you learn fast; you learn how to transcribe, you learn WordPress tricks, you learn how to manage a community&#8230;. You do everything that you need to do, because this field really values learning and being agile. So, all great skills that I take with me now.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> So Brit, let\u2019s say that I\u2019ve reached the point in my business where I need to hire a VA to help me with whatever the various things are: maybe it\u2019s interviewing; maybe it\u2019s getting control of my inbox; maybe it\u2019s finding leads for me. What are some things I need to know, or be aware of, before we engage to make sure that that relationship works out and that I don\u2019t end up, you know, frustrated and needing to find somebody else to help me two months later?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit: <\/strong>So, the first thing you need to do is truly assess what you need the virtual assistant for. I\u2019ve definitely worked with clients in my distant past as a VA who didn\u2019t quite know what they needed, or, we started working and then they realized, \u201cUgh, I really don\u2019t like surrendering control of this one thing to someone else,\u201d and I <em>still<\/em> see that as a copywriter who focuses on social media. So if you want to work with a VA, just think to yourself, what am I sincerely all right with giving up? What am I okay with if it\u2019s done at 98% instead of 100%? Which, hey, if you hire a good VA then it <em>will<\/em> be done at 100%, or they\u2019ll tell you immediately. So the control is a huge thing. Another thing I would say is that, you need to think to yourself, what am I comfortable with in terms of someone working frequently? Just because, if someone is willing to be on-call for you, that\u2019s fantastic, but you\u2019re going to have to pay for it. If someone is going to work two days a week, that\u2019s great\u2014that\u2019s probably going to be more affordable. But you need to be okay with them setting their limits and respecting their limits. The worse VA-blogger, VA-entrepreneur, VA-<em>anything<\/em> relationships I\u2019ve seen are someone expects the VA to be on 24\/7 but they\u2019re paying the equivalent of three days a week.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>Right. So Brit, you know, you\u2019re the community manager in our Facebook group. There\u2019s nearly 7,000 copywriters in our group; it\u2019s <em>highly<\/em> highly engaged and, of course we\u2019re biased but we think it\u2019s an excellent group. So when you\u2019re managing a community, what are some of the principles behind it, or do you have, you know, set rules when you\u2019re jumping in there and creating, growing, helping your clients grow community?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit:<\/strong> Well, firstly, you have to want it. <em>(Laughs.)<\/em> You have to want to engage the time, and the care, and the answering your questions. It really does take time. Managing our group takes time, it takes attention; it takes editing; it takes thinking ahead. You have to be willing to engage in that and really, really want it. And you have to be prepared to be frustrated. You have to prepare for the times when nobody\u2019s saying anything, or if it\u2019s only the people who are looking for trouble who are saying things. So, you have to really want it, and to run a successful Facebook community, you have to like the people that are in it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong><em>(Laughs.)<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit: <\/strong>It sounds silly, but it\u2019s true! Like, so many entrepreneurs especially and so many copywriters, they start groups, but they don\u2019t talk to them. They want them to be engaged customers from the get-go, and it\u2019s like, eh, <em>no<\/em>. You\u2014you have to start a Facebook community with the aim of having friends, receiving feedback, and then a small percentage of those people will buy from you. <em>And that\u2019s normal.<\/em> Because even if they don\u2019t buy from you, they should still be showing up to talk to you, and talk about the subject.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> It\u2019s interesting that you say that, because, while we definitely have products or whatever, I\u2019ve never really thought of anybody in our Facebook group as somebody that I\u2019m trying to sell something too necessarily. Always in the back of the mind, there are opportunities of course, but I\u2019ve never really thought about our audience quite that mercenary.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit: <\/strong>Exactly. It\u2019s extremely common to think of a Facebook group or any sort of community that way and, it\u2019s extremely tempting because, yeah, of <em>course<\/em>, of <em>course<\/em>\u2014ideally, every customer you have will come from this group because they\u2019ll be your superfans, but\u2014realistically, you have to count on a few people being very active, and very passionate, very evangelical; a few people that are totally disinterested that never post, that are only there for the one freebie you offered, or because their friend added them; and then lots of people in the middle. And of course you can work to convert those people in the middle but, moreover, you\u2019re there to give the people in the middle a good time. You\u2019re there to provide value. Like the graphic I posted in club a couple days ago that I still stick to very, very closely: \u201cStop selling and stop helping\u201d, and I really believe that with groups and communities.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>Yeah, and we know even in our community, a bunch of the copywriters have their own Facebook groups, or they want to start a Facebook group. What advice would give to them if they\u2019re starting from scratch, and they want it to be successful? They may want it to connect to their business and ultimately sell something but their primary goal is just to build a thriving group.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit: <\/strong>First of all, that\u2019s the best goal to have, is to create a thriving group! I would say again, prepare to be frustrated, but prepare to\u2014prepare, <em>literally prepare<\/em> as in write up documents, write out a plan, of\u2014providing a good experience. You have to provide a fun experience; you have to engage people; you have to hold events. One group that I was running for an author, we held a monthly author takeover, where we had another author, like a friend of the main author&#8230;how many times can I say \u2018author\u2019 before it doesn\u2019t mean anything? <em>(Laughs)&#8230;.<\/em> So they basically came in, they answered questions for an hour, and then we gave away a prize every twenty minutes to the people who asked and answered questions. So it was definitely time-consuming, but it got people engaged. You have to make it a fun experience; you have to make it meaningful, so plan accordingly.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>So while we\u2019re still talking about the Facebook group\u2014or maybe in particular <em>our<\/em> Facebook group\u2014what advice to you have for people in the group, and maybe want to engage or get more out of the group? What could they be doing differently instead of doing nothing?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit: <\/strong>I would start by commenting. Read the comments, get the vibe, get to know the people who post most frequently. Ask a question&#8230;I mean, we love people who ask questions all the time, especially if the question is new. I mean of course, search the past posts to make sure your question\u2019s original, but, just ask a question. And, of course, participate in the day themes and ask if there\u2019s something wrong that you\u2019re missing. Don\u2019t be afraid to ask bigger questions of the people who post frequently. So have a presence, but have a mindful presence. I know we have a lot of lurkers who just now came out and said, like, \u201cI\u2019ve been hanging around for like six months but now I\u2019m going to ask a question\u201d, and I\u2019m like, \u201cNine times out of ten, if you lurk a little bit beforehand, your question\u2019s going to be <em>great<\/em>, and it will get a lot of feedback\u201d.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>So what are some rules of etiquette for Facebook groups that you wish everyone knew?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit: <\/strong>Read the rules first. <em>Laughs<\/em>. Read the rules first, for <em>goodness\u2019 sake<\/em>. Because I feel like a jerk if I have to go in and say, \u201cHey, can you post this on Friday instead?\u201d Most of the time I\u2019m posting that because I see what you\u2019re trying to do, or, I see what you want and I sincerely believe that, if you don\u2019t read the rules and then you step on something or step on someone, it\u2019s only going to work against you. Again, if you want to promote something in our group, we have Promo Friday, which is <em>really <\/em>fun and I\u2019m glad that it\u2019s taking off, and people are learning. But also, having one day for promotion and one thread for promotion, that\u2019s going to get you <em>so<\/em> much more exposure than if you just went hog-wild and posted about the thing that you just made. I know it\u2019s frustrating; I know you want to shout about your new stuff or your new discovery, but you need to hold off so that people in the group will not only respect you, but so that the group will work for you. So please read the rules.<\/p>\n<p>Second, I would say is, go in looking to be kind to people. It\u2019s interesting to see how many people are willing to critique someone when it\u2019s the <em>internet<\/em>. And I don\u2019t just mean like offer constructive criticism, because we do have a very good group for constructive criticism, but we need to come with the idea of, we\u2019re not going to always understand what the other person\u2019s tone of voice is; we don\u2019t see what their face is doing; we don\u2019t know how their day has been. So, give people the benefit of the doubt and try to come in with a mind to be kind. I was playing <em>League of Legends<\/em> the other day, and\u2014yes, I play <em>League of Legends<\/em>\u2014I was playing and someone asked me straight off, and I\u2019m so glad that they did: \u201cWas that last comment sarcastic?\u201d And I looked through the chat and I basically said, \u201cHey, you did really well.\u201d But, I\u2019m glad that they asked a clarifying question instead of immediately getting on the defensive and saying, \u201cOh, well, what do you mean? I died really quickly; what are you talking about?\u201d And I\u2019m like, \u201cNo, you genuinely held your own; good job.\u201d And they said, \u201cOh! Well, thank you.\u201d Hopefully brightened their day a little bit, but there\u2019s no harm in asking a clarifying question.<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019re all just on the internet together. We need to&#8230;<em>laughs<\/em>&#8230;give people the benefit of the doubt, or at least assume that they\u2019re <em>probably<\/em> not looking to ruin someone\u2019s day or troll or anything like that. Trolls are a very small population, and they\u2019re loud and obnoxious, but most people are not trolls. I think a great deal many people are misunderstood.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>Yeah, no doubt. I want to add one as well: use the search function.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit: <\/strong><em>Yes&#8230;<\/em>!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>And this just is&#8230;. this isn\u2019t in our group only. The number of people that come in as beginners in their standard questions, you know: how do I find clients? What books do you guys recommend? You see these over and over and over, and so much time could be saved if somebody just types in a question into the search function and sees what\u2019s been recommended in the past <em>before<\/em> they ask their question, and if they don\u2019t find something, go for it; ask away. Obviously, the group is incredibly helpful, but yeah. Seeing the same questions posted almost on a daily basis can get a little frustrating I think for a lot of members who have been there for a while.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit: <\/strong>Absolutely, and again, it doesn\u2019t help the people who are looking to begin with and asking to begin with if their post just gets buried in the algorithm, because people see it and they\u2019re like, \u201c<em>Ugh! This again!<\/em>\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>Yeah, exactly.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>All right Brit, so we talked a lot about Facebook groups but, beyond that, you know, you work in multiple social media platforms. So where are copywriters really missing out today? What could we do to step up our game on social media?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit: <\/strong>So I think a lot about this, and, I think a lot of people are underestimating how much they can use their own voice. Like, I have a fair amount of Twitter followers for myself. I think I\u2019m about 2,000 right now? Which&#8230;. it\u2019s not bad, I want to improve, but, I can attribute over three quarters of those followers up to the fact that I use my own voice. I share copywriting material, I share horror material, but people like it if just say, \u201cOh, well, I really like this sort of scone that\u2019s available at my bakery.\u201d Like, people use social media to interact with each other on a human level. So using social media for their human voice, their comments, their opinions, it\u2019s <em>highly<\/em> underrated and it does make you stand out, even today.<\/p>\n<p>But when it comes to social media, I\u2019m so frustrated, even today\u2014<em>even in 2018<\/em>&#8211;by the amount of people that think that they need to be everywhere. And you absolutely do not. You need to find the sweet middle ground between places you \u201cneed to be\u201d and places you want to be. If you <em>want<\/em> to be on Pinterest and pinning all the time, that\u2019s fantastic; take that desire and channel it into pinning on brand content. Make yourself a marketing hub within Pinterest. Be honest with your own inclinations, and then be consistent there. If you do not get the point of Instagram\u2014like me personally, I don\u2019t like Instagram; I love managing it for brands, because it\u2019s super fun, but I don\u2019t get Instagram. And I tried a few times very early on in my career to sort of force myself to use Instagram because like, \u201cNo, I <em>have to be here!\u201d<\/em> and it\u2019s like, no, I can\u2019t sustain it; I don\u2019t know what my brand voice is on here. And that\u2019s <em>fine<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>Lots of people want to hop to the next big thing, and I\u2019m like, \u201cThe ne\u2014yeah&#8230; Take a week. Take a week, see what other people are doing with it; see if you still want to do it there.\u201d I was really skeptical whenever big brands hopped onto Snapchat, but then, the MOMA is amazing on Snapchat!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> So Brit, let\u2019s talk a little bit about Pinterest. I know this is one of your specialties. I\u2019m one of those people that maybe doesn\u2019t think I belong on Pinterest or I get there and I can see the value of having images on Pinterest and maybe sharing those, but, why would a copywriter benefit from being on Pinterest, or, what kinds of things should somebody who wants to be there be doing?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit:<\/strong> Well I\u2019m about to blow you mind Rob, because&#8230;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>Do it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit: <\/strong><em>(Laughs.)<\/em> Pinterest is the number one direct referrer of all the social media networks in terms of click-throughs to websites, so it\u2019s a <em>giant referral machine<\/em>, if you can create the content for it. Secondly, it\u2019s wonderful and novel to me because it works more like a search engine than it does a social media network. And it\u2019s only getting more like as the algorithm changes, and as they\u2019re adopting lens and making it more of a thing. So if you have really good content to share, people will latch on to that. If a copywriter wants to get on Pinterest, all they have to do is create content, take a little bit of time to make gorgeous images\u2014gorgeous and <em>relevant<\/em> images\u2014to that content, and then just get involved with the community and share and prove their enthusiasm. It\u2019s simple, if you\u2019re so inclined.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>So let\u2019s talk about what that means: gorgeous and relevant content. Like, what does that need to be? What would I be including? Again, let\u2019s say I\u2019m driving it to my copywriting business; what should I be sharing?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit: <\/strong>Well, let\u2019s say you wrote a blog post or you wrote a report or a white paper that has to do, let\u2019s say, with Google Plus: Is Google Plus still relevant? Then I would say \u201cOkay, well, there\u2019s plenty of add-ons or plug-ins that will let you show a stealth Pinterest photo if someone should hit Pinterest or \u201chit it\u201d in their browser extension or their share button. So, let\u2019s create a graphic for you that\u2019s about 700&#215;1100, and have good font, have something on-brand, that shows immediately what this blog post is about, and let\u2019s write out copy for it so that we\u2019ll be concise and SEO-proofed and ready, and so if someone wants to share it on Pinterest, and when <em>you\u2019re<\/em> ready to share it on Pinterest, everything points to exactly what this is about, and it\u2019s aesthetically pleasing. And you\u2019re pinning it into the right category and the right board. So, it\u2019s as easy as that, and then from there, you get consistent, you pin within Pinterest, you pin your own content, you pin ten pins a day to start with, let\u2019s say\u2014that\u2019s the official recommendation, ten pins a day, but be consistent. Maybe we get you on Tailwind, a wonderful program. We can hook you up with some tribes, which are basically groups of people that are pinning together; they\u2019re lots of marketing tribes on there. We get you sunk in; we get you involved; and we make sure that you\u2019re enthusiastic every step of the way.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> So beyond Pinterest, what are you most excited about right now on social media? What\u2019s happening, what\u2019s kind of new that <em>you<\/em> think would be really great for copywriters?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit:<\/strong> I am popping popcorn and watching the drama unfold with Facebook running out of ad space.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> <em>Oh!<\/em> Interesting.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit: <\/strong>Yeah! They\u2019re officially approaching \u201cad glut\u201d, as I\u2019m calling it! There\u2019s just a limited amount of places where they can show ads and they\u2019ve been pushing ads so far that I think we\u2019re going to see in 2018 a sort of struggle to survive; only the best, most committed people in terms of Facebook ads are going to stay around. But it might not happen in this year, but I think it\u2019s going to happen eventually, just because Facebook is reaching a tipping point. I love writing Facebook ads; they\u2019re display <em>sucks<\/em>. Facebook Ad Editor is terribly built, there\u2019s notoriously slow help associated with it, so, I\u2019m partially wondering if it\u2019s going to be that the people who are not enthusiastic about Facebook ads are going to drop out, so Facebook prices will go up\u2014up in a good way, as in they might become more valuable because there\u2019s only a certain amount of real estate, and the people who don\u2019t care are dropping out\u2014or, the bidding is going to get insane and lots of the smaller companies will be priced out, and Facebook will have to make a choice: do they want to appeal to more companies or fewer companies but companies that have money? So I\u2019m excited to see when \u201cad-glut-pocalypse\u201d, or whatever it\u2019s going to be, happens.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Interesting. Okay, cool. So Brit, we met you in our Accelerator program, and I\u2019d like to hear more about what that experience was like for you, as far as what you took away from it or how your business changed during that time, or after.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit: <\/strong>Well I loved the Accelerator, first of all; I\u2019m a happy evangelist for it, so everyone listen to this person who\u2019s crazy-enthusiastic, and just&#8230;yeah. It\u2019s fantastic. I loved being a part of the Accelerator. It was fun to be amongst a group of people who were all looking to really get serious about their business, and just really learn and process, and dissect everything that we were learning. You two were great in that you had office hours and actually attended the office hours. The critique was usually very helpful, and just the emphasis on critique and&#8230;I would say <em>practicum\u2014<\/em>that would be the word I would use\u2014just the idea of, we\u2019re going to learn by doing, we\u2019re going to learn by talking about it, we\u2019re going to learn by chatting with each other&#8230;it was really close to how I felt taking summer semester classes at college, just because we were all there for the same thing, and we were all committed. It was really nice to be with a bunch of people who really took themselves seriously, and wanted to take each other seriously, and everyone wanted to grow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>So how did it change you business? What was the practical effect for you personally?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit: <\/strong>Well I have a better website now. <em>Laughs.<\/em> But no, seriously, it forced me to really think about what I wanted to be. It gave me perspective on what do I do in a unique fashion. It really just made me braver about a lot of things. I was reading more than ever; I forced myself to come up with an education routine where a couple days a week I would take hours and just read the press, read the articles, and read the new news on what\u2019s coming out. It basically helped take myself much more seriously, because again, coming off of being a VA, I was nervous, I was uncertain, I was like, \u201cI want to be a copywriter\u201d, but I was used to not being taken seriously. Because, let\u2019s be honest, I\u2019m one of the younger members in group, I have a crazy-high voice; like, I was used to people not immediately taking me seriously, and now I\u2019m in the wonderful, supportive environment where everyone is listening to each other, supporting each other, like&#8230; It was the equivalent of us all hanging out and saying like, \u201cNo, no&#8230; it\u2019s going to be okay. We\u2019ll find a solution for this thing that\u2019s bothering you in your business,\u201d or, \u201cI don\u2019t know if this quite works, but here\u2019s something you can do instead.\u201d It was a great vibe; I really feel like I benefited from it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>And as you know Brit, you know, a lot of copywriters that step into the Accelerator, you know, they\u2019re new; they really struggle with confidence and creating boundaries with clients. So, do you have any advice for copywriters who are currently struggling with boundaries and feel like their clients are pushing them around? What\u2019s helped you?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit: <\/strong>Oh my goodness. I see this in Club and it breaks my heart; it really breaks my heart because it\u2019s so common. I think the first step is really just to acknowledge and try to internalize the point that even when you so-called \u201cmake it\u201d, this still might happen. You still might not be taken seriously by people. They might still attempt to bully you into getting what they want, so you have to learn this now. There\u2019s never going to be this golden period where everybody takes you seriously all the time, and no one\u2019s going to try to get something for cheap, or free, or rushed for no fee. So I really think that that\u2019s the first step: acknowledge that this is something you have to learn. You have to learn it now, you\u2019re going to have to keep learning it, and so, just say <em>no<\/em>. Say, \u201cOh yeah, I can do this rushed job&#8230;<em>for a fee<\/em>\u201d; \u201cI can do that thing <em>for a fee<\/em>\u201d, and the best people will respect that. It\u2019s really that simple; the best people will respect you. And if they don\u2019t, you shouldn\u2019t be working with them. I\u2019ve had\u2014I say this having had to learn it about fifty times, but as Bren\u00e9 Brown says: \u201cYou only get courage by couraging.\u201d It will get easier with time; you have to believe that it will.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>One of the things that you were just joking about coming out of the accelerator with is a better website. If people go to your website, they\u2019ll see that you have embraced a pretty unique brand for yourself.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit: <\/strong><em>(Laughs.)<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> And I think this is something that isn\u2019t just for your clients or for your website, but you live this throughout your life. How did you settle on the brand that you are using for your copywriting business, and, sort of walk us through the thought-process you had as you were developing that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit: <\/strong>Oh my goodness; so, I can believe it took me so long, if I\u2019m going to be honest. As being the horror copywriter, I was surprised with myself. Once I did, it\u2019s like, \u201cOh, this makes complete sense; why didn\u2019t I do this?\u201d Because again, it\u2019s always a struggle to be taken seriously. I walked into Copywriter Club and I\u2019m like, \u201cThere\u2019s so many people with these super-defined brands, and they\u2019ve all these credentials and they\u2019re getting taken seriously, and here\u2019s tiny me; I\u2019m like, oh gosh. How am I going to stand out? How am I going to gain clout? How am I going to do any of this? And I was thinking about all this and going through the Accelerator and then watching horror movies on the weekends, and&#8230;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong><em>(Laughs.)\u00a0\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit:<\/strong> &#8230;just doing all this, and I\u2019m like, \u201cWhat am I going to do?\u201d But then it hit me one day of, If you can\u2019t hide something, <em>weaponize it<\/em>. I couldn\u2019t hide the fact, like, yeah, I <em>am<\/em> younger than most of these copywriters. Yeah, I <em>am<\/em> really interested in horror. Also, nobody else is doing else, so I\u2019m just going to lean into this. And honestly, it\u2019s been a source of strength. Like, I can lean into the fact, like, yeah\u2014I\u2019m really into horror; I\u2019m sincerely into this. I love my aesthetic, and it\u2019s easier to work hard at something if you genuinely love it; if it feels true. So if someone is saying like, \u201cI\u2019m waiting for the next great drag queen copywriter. I\u2019m waiting for that\u201d, I will be so excited once that happens, when someone just says: \u201cI\u2019m a great copywriter. I also fully participate in my drag community. So I\u2019m just going to lean into that for my branding.\u201d I\u2019m going to be so excited when that happens. Or, the next trapeze artist copywriter, who uses all their pictures of their time in trapeze in their branding. Like, I don\u2019t know what they would call it\u2014High Wire Copy, or something like that. Someone take that. <em>Someone take that<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> I\u2019ve got dibs on drag queen, I think.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit: <\/strong>Oh my goodness.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit: <\/strong>I can\u2019t wait to see that<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong><em>(Laughs.)<\/em> Okay. So Brit, what I love about your brand\u2014well I love so many things about your brand.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit: <\/strong>Aww, thanks!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> But what I really love about it is that you do live it. It\u2019s not just a website, not just a show, now just marketing, like when anyone hears about your day-to-day like, or even your personal pictures on Facebook, like, it\u2019s clear that you have a passion for horror, so I just want to know where did this love of all things horror&#8230;where did it come from? When did it start?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit: <\/strong>It\u2019s actually really&#8230;. (<em>laughs) <\/em>&#8230;I guess you can say profound. But, I love the horror subculture. It\u2019s been one of the greatest joys of my adult life to discover the horror subculture, because, I mean, lots of kids love scary things. But, I think a lot of people seek out scary things because they really love balance. People I\u2019ve met in horror communities like the wonderful Kat Wells of\u2014yes, I guess she just got married, so Katherine Wells\u2014of the Boys and Ghouls Podcast; she\u2019s a huge horror nerd, always been into horror. She\u2019s also extremely <em>kind<\/em>. Like, horror fans were the first to mobilize after the Orlando tragedy to donate blood, and get together and really provide compassion for that. I find that horror fans are also the most generous in terms of promoting and sharing other people\u2019s art. Around the same time as The Copywriter Club, I discovered a Youtube channel called Nightmind, and the whole point of that Youtube channel is, let\u2019s look at the horror art that people are creating around the internet, and highlight it and discuss theories around it, and really just critique it as art and also, share what\u2019s good. So it\u2019s a wonderful a constructive community, and I was really happy to find it. And also just the relation of, oh, I\u2019ve always loved this. But, I really&#8230;let\u2019s say&#8230;faith-based household. So the most exposure I ever got to horror growing up was The Black Cauldron and the front of the DVD case The Silence of the Lambs.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Wow. So, one of the things about a brand like yours though, Brit, is that it\u2019s very polarizing. I imagine that a lot of people will see it, and not take you seriously, or be repelled by. What do you think about that? Because, you\u2019ve definitely stepped into this in a big way.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit:<\/strong> Yes, I have. And, it\u2019s actually fun. It\u2019s fun to see what people react to it, because like you said, in terms of taking seriously, the people who don\u2019t? I don\u2019t want to work with. Most of the time I don\u2019t work with horror-based brands. And I\u2019m okay with that. I\u2019m absolutely okay with that. Or, I work with people who don\u2019t know I\u2019m horror, if they read one of my pieces on Medium or something like that, and then they hop over to my site and they\u2019re like, \u201cOh&#8230;.<em>Ohhhhh.<\/em>\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> <em>(Laughs.)<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit:<\/strong> \u201cOh, goodness\u201d. <em>Laughs<\/em>. Oh, it\u2019s fun. It\u2019s real fun. But honestly, it\u2019s a great litmus test. Like, Kira, I really admired your brand when I first started just because you are polarizing. You\u2019re very cheerful, and very colorful. And I just thought, \u201cThat is so brave for a copywriter to just be like, yeah, no, I am what I am; my work speaks for itself. If you\u2019re into me, you\u2019re into me. Let\u2019s work together.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Yeah, well thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit:<\/strong> I mean, you really inspired me. I really mean that. Laughs.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Oh, thank you! I think it\u2019s important. So, I guess what advice would you give to a copywriter that is thinking about branding and feels like they just need that nudge to do it. What advice would you give to them?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit: <\/strong>I would say, first of all, make sure you know yourself. Make sure you have a least a dossier of things that you\u2019ve written, at the very least, so that you\u2019ve means and ways to back yourself up. And make sure you get testimonials. Oh my goodness; testimonials. It\u2019s made all the difference to my business to have five normal looking people say, \u201cOh, no, she\u2019s great to work with! It\u2019s fun!\u201d And after that, I mean, just lean into it. I work with Cannabis brands all the time and we work with very distinct brands and it\u2019s really fun that way, but then they don\u2019t have a lot of testimonials for customers and it\u2019s kind of tragic. So you have to have the solid back-footing. Then, after that, the sky\u2019s the limit. Like I said, I\u2019m waiting for the next drag queen copywriter, I\u2019m waiting for the trapeze artist, I\u2019m waiting who is in the field of building Gundams, to have a row of Gundams on their Facebook banner, or on their front page and say, \u201cAre you ready to suit up?\u201d There are so many people that have hobbies or inclinations for all of that that I\u2019m waiting to see. I think it\u2019d be great. I respect some people\u2019s desire to have the most professional looking website ever. I understand. But if you\u2019re not enthusiastic about your own brand, there\u2019s no way you can make other people enthusiastic about it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Brit, you mentioned that you have worked with Cannabis brands, and other than cryptocurrencies, I don\u2019t think that there\u2019s a hotter segment right now, as far as growth, and a lot of interest in our community in working with these kinds of companies that are just emerging, just trying to figure things out; is there something unique about this industry that people ought to know before they start engaging, or is it just another product, like all others, you know, use the same approach you would with any other?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit:<\/strong> Let me just say, out loud, for the record, I love cannabis. As a brand, as a thing. It\u2019s really fun because, to answer your question, it\u2019s really fun because it\u2019s at once an ancient thing, and at once a modern thing. Like, if someone really wants to learn what cannabis is like, go to Reddit, go to the art\/trees subReddit, and read about those experiences. Read about what people know. The reason I went on Medium &#8211; and people should check this out and tell me if I\u2019ve forgotten anything &#8211; I wrote an A-Z guide to cannabis, because I was so weirded out and puzzled by the fact that people who work in cannabis increasingly don\u2019t know how people speak about cannabis in normal, lexiconic language. They don\u2019t know who people like Timothy Leary are, or they don\u2019t know what Panama red is, or anything like that. And I was just &#8211; I was amazed at the knowledge gap.<\/p>\n<p>People can know what cannabis is scientifically and I think a lot of cannabis copywriters can start there. And that\u2019s totally fine! I mean, you should know how X and Y are made, or what the technical cannabinoid numbers of this particular strain are &#8211; but you need more than that. You need to know about the culture behind it. You need to know what is a land-race strain. You need to know the folk history about it. And it\u2019s kind of tragic &#8211; I hope to see more books being written about it, like, what were the strains of the Vietnam war? I actually am in talks to work with an agency in Portland and I told her, \u201cWhat if I wrote a course called The History of America in Five Strains\u201d? And she was like, \u201cI LOVE it! We should do that and teach it as a class!\u201d I\u2019m like, I\u2019d take that class! Goodness. So they have to understand that there\u2019s a people\u2019s history of cannabis as well as a scientific history of cannabis. And the fact that they both exist at the same time, at the same point in history, makes it so exciting.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> So, let\u2019s talk about mistakes that you see people making, taking a little bit of a turn here. You know, you\u2019ve seen stuff in the Copywriter Club, you\u2019ve seen maybe mistakes people were making in the Accelerator when you went through, and just your observation: as you look out at what copywriters are doing, what are some of the things they\u2019ve just got to stop doing?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit:<\/strong> Copywriters need to start trusting themselves and stop living in the research phase. And this is something I fall prey to at times, but I\u2019ve gotten better at pulling myself out of it. So, I want to help pull other people out of it. But you have to stop thinking that your knowledge is ever going to be enough someday. Chances are, it\u2019s not. The best pros I know are always researching, they\u2019re always learning, they\u2019re always practicing; if they don\u2019t have work in what they want to be doing, they just go out and make something. Like, there\u2019s never going to be a perfect point of knowledge where it\u2019s like, \u201cOkay, yes! I\u2019m ready to jump into the fray!\u201d As long as you\u2019re respectful and polite and apologize if you do something wrong, no one\u2019s going to care; they\u2019re just happy to have you there. So, stop doubting yourself. I mean, obviously, try not to make obvious mistakes and don\u2019t be a jerk about it, but there\u2019s never going to be a point where you\u2019re perfect and ready and able to jump in and participate. No. That point\u2019s never going to happen. You need to just do it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>And Brit, what are you focused on in 2018 in your business?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit:<\/strong> In my business, I would say &#8211; it\u2019s such a basic thing but &#8211; I want to focus more on doing one thing at a time. Just because, I think working in social media may have done this to me <em>(Laughs) <\/em>for 8 years, plus, working in social media. But I have a tendency to multi-task. So I weave at my desk, I doodle, if I need to; I have a distraction list, so if something floats into my head so if something floats into my head and I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, I should be doing that!\u201d I just write it down and put it away. I write it down, put it away, and I revisit after work hours. So, it\u2019s such a tiny habit but it influences everything that I do. So, one thing at a time, if I had to pick a resolution. That\u2019s my resolution for 2018.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>Awesome, and Brit, if one of our listeners wants to contact you, of course they can find you in the Facebook group, but where else can they find you online?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit: <\/strong>Well, my website is Black Bow Communications; you can subscribe to my newsletter, The Weekly Spooky, which is just horror, but I may or may not have a copy newsletter coming later this year. Just watch for that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Sweet, thanks Brit! It\u2019s been awesome getting to know your business a little bit better and hearing your thoughts, especially about social media and the Facebook group.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit: <\/strong>It\u2019s been lovely having me. It\u2019s always lovely to talk to you too. Laughs.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong><em>(Laughs.)<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong><em>(Laughs.)<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> It has been lovely having you! Thank you, Brit. We\u2019re grateful that you\u2019re in the community and play such a big role in it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brit:<\/strong> Thank you for having me! I hope to see you all in the group and talk to you!<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Copywriter Brit McGinnis steps out of the club&#8217;s Facebook group to join Rob and Kira for the 75th episode of\u00a0The Copywriter Club Podcast. (Don\u2019t look now but we\u2019re three quarters [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_coblocks_attr":"","_coblocks_dimensions":"","_coblocks_responsive_height":"","_coblocks_accordion_ie_support":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[2],"tags":[100,3],"class_list":["post-1286","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-podcast","tag-brit-mcginnis","tag-podcast"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v26.7 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>TCC Podcast #75: What Copywriters Need to Know about Social Media and Working with a VA with Brit Mcginnis - The Copywriter Club<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Copywriter Brit McGinnis on what you need to know about social media, how to work with a VA, how to get the most out of a Facebook group, why she chose to be the &quot;horror&quot; copywriter, and what you should know about the cannabis market. 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