{"id":1302,"date":"2018-02-20T16:24:52","date_gmt":"2018-02-20T09:24:52","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/?p=1302"},"modified":"2018-10-20T21:57:12","modified_gmt":"2018-10-20T14:57:12","slug":"processes-investing-in-yourself-christine-laureano","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/processes-investing-in-yourself-christine-laureano\/","title":{"rendered":"TCC Podcast #77: Processes, Niches and Investing in Yourself with Christine Laureano"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>For episode 77 of\u00a0<em>The Copywriter Club Podcast<\/em>, Kira and Rob talk with copywriter and marketing specialist Christine Laureano about her business, what it\u2019s like to work with different niches that are completely different (makers and engineers), and a whole lot more. Here\u2019s what we covered in our time together:<\/p>\n<p>\u2022 \u00a0how she went from the corporate world to maker to marketer to copywriter<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0what she did to deal with a devastating personal tragedy<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0the importance of carving focused creative time out of your day<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0how she created systems to support her work and produce results<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0the difference between working with big clients and small clients<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0how she conducts her discovery process to uncover additional work (she gives a specific example)<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0the process she went through to land a recent engineering client<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0how she deals with working in more than one niche<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0what she does to find clients who can pay within her niche<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0why she is involved in more than one master mind group<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0how she stays upbeat all the time (this is great advice)<\/p>\n<p>She also explains why e-commerce is such a rich opportunity for writers today\u2014the growth in this sector makes it hard to ignore. To listen, click\u00a0the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.<\/p>\n<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_5683\"><!--[if lt IE 9]><script>document.createElement('audio');<\/script><![endif]-->\n<audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-1302-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC077CL.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC077CL.mp3\">https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC077CL.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC077CL.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/?powerpress_pinw=1302-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC077CL.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"TCC077CL.mp3\">Download<\/a><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/thecopywriterclub.com\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<h3>The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:<\/h3>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.copyblogger.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Copyblogger<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/gp\/product\/1567187242\/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=9325&amp;creativeASIN=1567187242&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;tag=brandstory00-20&amp;linkId=c482983cd5ebf7ca8244dfed879391c4\"><em>Angels<\/em> by Silver Ravenwolf<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecopywriteraccelerator.com\">The Copywriter Accelerator<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/mirasee.com\/about-us\/danny-iny\/?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Danny Iny<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/gp\/product\/1541232518\/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=9325&amp;creativeASIN=1541232518&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;tag=brandstory00-20&amp;linkId=5121f8418fd6bea6a222d5b6550baa63\"><em>Teach and Grow Rich<\/em><\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecopywriterthinktank.com\">The Copywriter Think Tank<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/joanna-wiebe\/\">Joanna Wiebe<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.jpeterman.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">The J Peterman Company<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.imdb.com\/title\/tt0098904\/\">Seinfeld<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.ba6marketing.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Ba6marketing.com<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/kirahug.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Kira\u2019s website<\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/kaleighmoore.us11.list-manage.com\/subscribe?u=7bdb50a2eb0d5b0a501cd1bf4&amp;id=9bf46b3e1d\"><br \/>\n<\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/www.brandstoryonline.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Rob\u2019s website<\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/kaleighmoore.us11.list-manage.com\/subscribe?u=7bdb50a2eb0d5b0a501cd1bf4&amp;id=9bf46b3e1d\"><br \/>\n<\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/groups\/thecopywriterclub\/\">The Copywriter Club Facebook Group<\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\"><br \/>\n<\/a>Intro:\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/soundcloud.com\/fauves\/content-for-now\">Content (for now)<\/a><br \/>\nOutro:\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/album\/gravity\/id304219081?i=304219099\">Gravity<\/a>\n<h3>Full Transcript:<\/h3>\n<p><strong><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright wp-image-1328 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/02\/christine-small.png\" alt=\"Copywriter Christine Laureano\" width=\"300\" height=\"300\" srcset=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/02\/christine-small.png 300w, https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/02\/christine-small-150x150.png 150w, https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/02\/christine-small-50x50.png 50w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/>Rob: <\/strong>What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That\u2019s what Kira and I do every week at <em>The Copywriter Club Podcast<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>You\u2019re invited to join the club for episode 77 as we chat with copywriter Christine Laureano about her path from business owner to copywriter, writing for engineers and other technical clients, how she uses her coaching experience as a copywriter, and how she stays so positive through the ups and downs of business.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Welcome, Christine.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Hey, Christine.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Christine:<\/strong> Hey, guys! Excited to be here. Thanks for having me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Yeah, welcome!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>It\u2019s great to have you here.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> All right, Christine, I know you have a really interesting path and story and we\u2019d love to share it with our listeners.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Christine: <\/strong>Oh, yeah, the winding path. Okay. Well, I am probably one of the oldest copywriters in <em>The Copywriter Club<\/em>. My path started back in the 80\u2019s, way before the internet, when marketing was still done with maybe a computer, but pen and paper; rock and chisel. But I graduated college with a marketing degree and a minor in computer science. So not only was I into the marketing end of it, but I love the tech stuff.<\/p>\n<p>So I ended up getting a job at Xerox, and I did the corporate thing for several years. From there, I go down to a very, very technical job as a marketing exec, managing executive for accounts for an electronics distributor. I worked really closely with engineers, I worked with purchasing, I worked with production and manufacturing, and I did that for a really long time and that satisfied my technical need. And of course, the writing that I did for that was really that boring, dry copy. It was proposals, it was the stuff that I hate to think about when I look back on it. And then from there, I ended up having a family.<\/p>\n<p>And this is where everything kind of turned and the reason I talk about it like this is, I know everybody has life lessons and things and tragedies and things that happened in their life that forced them to pivot, and I had one of those. Our first daughter ended up passing in daycare. So my life completely, completely changed. I spent a month on the couch, literally, trying to figure out, \u201cWhat am I going to do with myself? What am I going to do my life?\u201d I actually finally ended up getting off the couch, took a shower, and went to a bookstore and books were, you know, a great solace for me, but not non-fiction. I went to all the how to books. \u201cHow to feel better\u201d, \u201cHow to get your life back\u201d\u2014all that. And that really made me think about what were the next steps.<\/p>\n<p>So when I had my next children, there was no way daycare was in the picture, so what could I do that would use some of my talents, but yet, allow me to be home with my kids? And the big part of it was, how to feel good while doing it. So I ended up creating a natural skincare line. I became a certified aromatherapist, I worked a lot with essential oils, and I just wanted to play around with products that made people feel really good, so I did that for a little bit, and then as it started to grow, and I had products on every flat surface of my house, I actually got scared. Because I thought about, \u201cWow, my next step is to become a manufacturer, get a facility, move out; what do I do with my kids?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>So the worst thing I could possible do: I bailed. I gave it all up and I bailed. Actually, it was a really good decision at the time because that\u2019s when I discovered how to do other maker things. I became a chocolatier, I did other fun things that I could burn my time without having to become another big business. And that\u2019s when I discovered coaching. Because one of the things that I loved to do was coach other women in their creative business on how to start a business. So I did that for a while. I worked in the coaching space for a bit. But I really, really missed the product-end of it. That was a service-based business and I missed doing the products. So I decided to go back, re-launched my product, I rebranded, I renamed, and I built that business literally from the ground up with new formulas, new GMB compliancy, FDA regulations, and all that. But what I discovered in this winding path was that, all the pieces that came together were, I love marketing!<\/p>\n<p>And it was my creative director at Basics Botanicals and I found that that was my passion. I didn\u2019t love making as much as I loved marketing. So that\u2019s what brought me to copywriting. I did copywriting in my interim with children. I did do a couple year\u2019s stint as a freelancer. And I did work for ADT and a couple agencies here on Long Island, but as I had my second child, I ended up working away from that because I lived so far away from everybody. So I pulled away from that, and that\u2019s when all these other things happened and I came back to it back in 2015. I got a certification from Copyblogger for their content marketing because I loved the way that fit into e-commerce businesses and trying to help other makers get seen and heard without a big budget for marketing. So I started with that, and then it just kind of grew back into loving copy, and optimizing\u2014not that I\u2019m great at it, but I love the idea of it\u2014and I ended up in Joanna Wiebe\u2019s mastermind. I love how Joanna put together the idea of conversion copy with research-based information, not just a direct marketing aspect of it. So that\u2019s really how I came back into copywriting, in this windy path.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Okay. There is SO much that we can cover here and so many different questions that we want to ask, but, really don\u2019t want to gloss over\u2014you mentioned the tragedy of losing your daughter, you know at a real pivotal point in your life, and hopefully I\u2019m not asking too much, but, you know I think a lot of people go through tragedies like that, and aren\u2019t able to talk about them, and so I\u2019m just wondering how you got through that? You mentioned a month on the couch. I just can\u2019t even imagine how to deal with that kind of a thing. How did you possibly get through that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Christine:<\/strong> Yeah, and thanks for asking because you know what? Everybody has some kind of tragedy in their life, and the one thing for me was, a month was kind of a short time, but it was a really long time not to take a shower, so&#8230;.<em>laughs<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> <em>Laughs<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Christine:<\/strong> I really had to get up.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Sure, sure.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Christine:<\/strong> It actually took many, many, years to work through it, but what I discovered at the end of that month was, I could do one of two things: I could spiral up, or I could spiral down. And I was headed in the downward spiral really fast. And that\u2019s when I got up and I went to the bookstore, and I literally\u2014for a lot of the spiritual people out there, they\u2019ll get this: I actually found a book on angels. And it was the strangest thing, because wherever I turned in the bookstore, there that book was.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Huh!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Christine: <\/strong>So I\u2019m like, \u201cOkay&#8230;.I\u2019ll pick that book up, I guess!\u201d The universe has an interesting way of showing us just what we need. I have never seen that book again; it wasn\u2019t in any other bookstore after that. So, you know, I really kind of took that time to regroup and really get to know myself. I allowed myself to grieve again; it was a long, long, <em>long<\/em> process, because the way this tragedy happened. So, I let myself be there. But in the meantime, I let myself also kind of dabble back into my creative side, because anybody that works for corporate knows how mind-numbing corporate work can be. I had, you know, mind-numbing from that and then, the tragedy of my daughter, just&#8230; You know, my head was not in the good place. So, I just got really creative.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>My guess is, having gone through that too, you probably have sort of a better sense of the importance of family, and the time that you spend there, and I think that\u2019s probably impacted the rest of your career, because you\u2019ve really been there for you other kids. You want to make sure that time is important.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Christine:<\/strong> Absolutely. And, that was right Rob\u2014top of mind for anything else I did was, you know, my main priority was my family and my kids, being there for them. But I also knew the importance of what I needed to do for me. I loved being a stay-at-home mom, but I also really needed to honor that creative side of me. And there was a point, you know, when I was in corporate years ago, I had a friend of mine that used to say, \u201cOh my God, you know, you\u2019re so creative, you think of these great ideas. You should do something with it.\u201d So I finally started doing something with it; again, it all kind of came back to marketing. Every time I did something new, between making bridal veils or chalk glitter products or whatever, it really came back to marketing. And so, I was able to do that around my kids\u2019 schedule, which was great. Again, because a lot of people I think feel that it\u2019s an all-of-nothing when they have a family: I can either get a sitter, and go all in with my business, or I need to stay home with my kids. And a lot of times, people don\u2019t give themselves that chance to do both, because you really can. And one of the things that I do as far as when I consult makers is that realize where do you want your business to go, but also realize if you have young kids, there\u2019s only a certain amount of time you have, and a certain amount of growth you\u2019ll have when your kids are that young. So allow for all those different stages too.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>Wow. Okay, so I want to know what the angels book is called, so I can look it up?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Christine:<\/strong> Oh my gosh, I cannot remember the name of it! It was a woman by the name of Silver Ravenwolf, and it was just&#8230; <em>A-Angels<\/em>&#8230;.? And, oh, I can\u2019t remember. I\u2019ll have to find it. And I never saw it again after that! But it followed me&#8230;.<em>laughs<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>One more question about this prioritizing family versus work, and this is in my head, right, because I have young kids right now. One of them is in daycare; it\u2019s constantly a struggle. So, do you have like an actionable tip for anyone listening who\u2019s dealing with a similar situation, trying to honor their career, their craft, their creativity, while also honoring their family and the people they care about most? What is something that we can do or a mindset that we need to really work on, or develop?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Christine:<\/strong> You know, one of the first things is, knowing that your children are safe, right? So, if you have them in daycare, you know, knowing your provider and knowing that they\u2019re <em>safe<\/em>, because a lot of what we kid distracted with in our businesses is, we worry about our kids! We worry about what they\u2019re doing, what\u2019s going on, are they being taken care of? So once that\u2019s taken care of, that really helps to ease your mind, and then, allows you to spend&#8230;even if it\u2019s&#8230;. Kira, <em>you know<\/em>, if you have two hours to yourself, you can get a <em>lot<\/em> done in two hours, you know? So, giving yourself that time to really get work in focus, because, if you\u2019re working from home, there\u2019s a lot of distractions. There\u2019s laundry; there\u2019s dogs; there\u2019s toys; you know, all this other stuff that\u2019s around. So definitely be very focused. Allow, again, whether it\u2019s an hour or two of really constructive, creative work time.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> So, I want to shift gears just a little bit and talk about some of the work experience that you had and how that impacts what you do as a copywriter. You\u2019ve started business, not just service businesses, but product businesses, and so you\u2019re doing all sorts of product creation; you\u2019ve worked in the technical field, so you\u2019ve sold sort of at the enterprise level, and to different-sized businesses. How has all of that experience informed what you do today as a copywriter? How does that make you better?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Christine:<\/strong> Yeah; you know, seeing the different sides of business has really helped me understand. Because, as a copywriter, I don\u2019t actually even just call myself a \u2018copywriter\u2019; I <em>love<\/em> strategy, and I love looking at the big picture, and then working down to the parts and the pieces that work together. That\u2019s so funny, because it kind of just came back around: one of the classes I took in college was called \u2018systems analysis and design\u2019. How I ever chose <em>that<\/em> elective my senior year, I think I was crazy. But, looking back on it, systems are big part of creating a business. Whether you\u2019re a copywriter, whether you\u2019re a product producer. And the one thing I learned with all this experience and all these different jobs is that there <em>has<\/em> to be a system in place to make it work. And, looking at the overview of everything, and then being able to put those pieces together, really was part of the foundation of being able to do all these other businesses, because one thing had to work in order for another thing to happen, and it goes with marketing and it goes with copywriters writing copy, writing effective copy for their clients, is the same thing. Like, what kind of systems do you have in place that will help you work and produce the best results?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>So let\u2019s talk about your systems, Christine. What systems do you have in place, and which ones are most critical to your business today?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Christine:<\/strong> Being a tech person, I do love my automation, <em>laughs<\/em>. But I try to pair it down to just a couple of things, because you know, we can get really taken away with a bright shiny object syndrome, when it comes to systems, so you know, I have a calendar system. I have my writing system; and I also have the systems that I work through with clients, and for what I see with copywriters and working with clients, those systems are really important. That system being, discovery, conversation, discovery, what\u2019s next, what are the goals, what do we see the project ending up as and what are the results that we want. So, that\u2019s the kind of writing system that I use, as well as, you know\u2014people ask about this, but\u2014my theme days, are another big thing that I learned from Joanna. As far as creating those kind of workable systems within my business because, again, I can get carried away with doing hours and hours of client work, but then I\u2019m not marketing my own business, or I\u2019m not getting onto social media, or writing articles or building authority, so, those kind of systems are really important to have in place.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> So, in the past we\u2019ve asked a few of our guests about their discovery process and the kinds of questions that they ask. You\u2019ve worked with a lot of different kinds of businesses, and I\u2019m really curious\u2014is there a difference in the kind of a discovery call that you would do with, say, a technical client, or an engineering client, versus someone that\u2019s maybe more of a maker in doing something that\u2019s maybe more consumer focused?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Christine:<\/strong> That\u2019s a great question Rob, because what I found in all the conversations is, you know what? When it comes down to it, people are people. And even though they\u2019re talking about business, what I found is that if i can just get people to open up about what they want and what they need, that certainly the enterprise engineering level is very different as far as that, because they think high-level, and they think about \u201cWhat does my company need?\u201d But when we really drill down and look at what does the end customer actually look for, you know\u2014what do our clients need, and that discovery process\u2014that really helps, and across the board, what I found is, that\u2019s pretty much the same. Or, very similar, with people.<\/p>\n<p>You know, looking at what people need; again, you know, what is the end result that we\u2019re looking for, you know? Is it growth? Is it acquisition, you know? So having those conversations with people and just being a coach, one of the things that that taught me\u2014I was certified in that too\u2014is that asking questions is the biggest part of any kind of discovery. And just letting the conversation happen, and being really good at active listening, so what\u2019s really going on in the answers that the customers are putting forth to you, and then asking deepening questions that helps you understand the process that they\u2019re going through, the end results that they\u2019re looking for, and\u2014you know, again, we all know this, is\u2014they may want a certain thing, but they may need something else.<\/p>\n<p>And so, really paying attention to those wants and needs and distinguishing between them helps them in that discovery process so when you\u2019re creating a strategy with somebody, you\u2019re really hitting on those subjects that maybe they were thinking or alluded to that make it really stand out for them, almost to the point where they say: \u201cWow, you know what? I was thinking that; I can\u2019t believe you discovered that!\u201d You know, of that you caught that or picked up on that. And that\u2019s what I found in connecting with clients, is, those are the biggest pieces that people really like, because they look at such a higher view of things that they don\u2019t look at, again what those deepening concerns can be, that they can answer and have the answers to for their clients.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Yeah, I think that\u2019s a really good point. Yesterday, Kira and I were talking to some of the writers that are in the Copywriter Accelerator, and we\u2019re talking about the difference between B-to-B and B-to-C, and, the difference often tend to be around process and how you get paid, and less around the needs that you need to focus on in order to sell things, because when it comes right down to it, you\u2019re still talking to a human being, as a business or as a consumer. Either way.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Christine:<\/strong> Definitely. And that\u2019s one thing that I found that, when working with engineers or enterprise, it\u2019s really funny because I like to drill down and they <em>don\u2019t like to go there<\/em>&#8230;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>I\u2019ll bet, yeah! <em>Laughs.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Christine: <\/strong>Yeah! And we would do discovery, you know, and we\u2019re doing our research for voice of customer data. You know, a lot of them don\u2019t have reviews or don\u2019t want you to talk to clients! And, one of the things that was hard with them is, just really realizing that, it\u2019s not just B-to-B; it\u2019s B-to-B-to-C. So, you know, for them to have a handle on their own clients, what those customers need will help them out in the long run, because, other people aren\u2019t connecting that way. And, consumer B-to-C work, you don\u2019t have the extra step involved. So, you know what I found in the maker industry is that they know they\u2019re customers. They\u2019re having those conversations directly. So it does become a little easier to find those wants and needs.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Christine, I would love an example\u2014this is putting you on the spot, but\u2014of your discovery, because it sounds like it\u2019s really powerful and you\u2019ve been able to uncover what your clients need when they don\u2019t even realize they need it. So, can you just provide an example of when that happened and what that looked like?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Christine: <\/strong>Yeah, yeah! I had this great engineering client that started out with, \u201cOkay, we need the copy on our website redone.\u201d So, I took a look at it, and just started having conversation with them, like okay, what do you think you need with this copy? What\u2019s missing? What kind of conversations do you want to have with your clients? And, it got into this discovery of really help making <em>them<\/em> think more about it because again, a lot of times those people think it\u2019s just copy on a page, and it\u2019s really the process, so it made them think about what the process is. What\u2019s that conversation they want to start? And what\u2019s going on in the heads of <em>their<\/em> clients? So we just talked about that, and again, I just let the conversation go, and flow where it needs to be. I can\u2019t say like I have an A-B-C process to it because, again, it\u2019s <em>all<\/em> about listening. And, as you start to get really better at listening to your customers, you start thinking about those questions and that discovery process, because, in that with this client, what we discovered was they didn\u2019t have a plan for growth; their presence online was <em>so<\/em> not where they wanted it to be, so we ended up recreating their website, but creating landing pages, and email sequences that helps for when they\u2019re at trade shows. So, from that discovery, we found a whole slew of things that they needed to do that will help their business grow in the way that they wanted it to grow, not in the traditional corporate way, so I guess I kind of got out of their head and, you know, looked at what they really needed next.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>So I think this is a really important conversation to have, because I see a lot of copywriters\u2014in fact probably the majority\u2014who are approached by a client, who then says, \u201cWe need website copy\u201d, and they stop there; they just provide the website copy and they don\u2019t go deeper to find out what are the needs, or what\u2019s really going on. But I think part of the reason that happens isn\u2019t because we don\u2019t realize that they actually might need something besides website copy like, you know, they\u2019re really after leads or sales, or telling a better story\u2014whatever that is\u2014but, because we don\u2019t know how to have this conversation where we\u2019re saying, \u201cOkay. Let\u2019s talk about your needs\u201d, because that suddenly becomes a bigger project, and a more expensive project, and we\u2019re, I think, often times afraid of scaring clients away by telling them they need more than what they think they need.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Christine:<\/strong> Absolutely; that\u2019s such a good point Rob because they <em>do<\/em> and, you know what? The way I look at it, that\u2019s okay too, because you\u2019re starting, you know, in those conversations, and yeah they may get scared and say, \u201cOh, no, no. I want to go back to just having web copy done.\u201d And, you know, starting out as a copywriter\u2014starting out in <em>any<\/em> business\u2014is scary, and sometimes we just don\u2019t know what to say, but the more you get into listening, really the easier it gets. And yes, some customers will go, \u201cOh I don\u2019t have that kind of budget,\u201d or, \u201cI don\u2019t have that kind of money.\u201d So, then we start to look at, okay\u2014where do we need to start this process? We don\u2019t have to do it all today, but, how can we help you look at the goals that they really want to have? So, you want your web copy done on your site, right? That\u2019s a good start. So let\u2019s start with a story. Let\u2019s start with the conversation that you want to start having with your customers, because I think that\u2019s the thing that most people don\u2019t think about, is the start of a sales conversation, and so, what does that look like?<\/p>\n<p>One of the things I\u2019ve found with clients\u2014and the clients that are receptive to it&#8230; The clients that aren\u2019t really receptive yet, I end up giving them some information, and you know, they may want to go find a copywriter that\u2019s just going to change their copy, and that\u2019s okay too. We can\u2019t please everybody, we know, as we grow our businesses and strategies, they\u2019re going to be a lot of those clients out there that just go, \u201cNo, don\u2019t want that; just want my copy done.\u201d And there\u2019s a lot of copywriters out there that are really good at doing that. But what I found for businesses when they really are at that point where they\u2019re growing, and they\u2019re really realize that that\u2019s what they want to do, they allow for a budget that can do that for them. Does that make sense?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Yeah, it does. And I think it really takes though knowing how to have that conversation, or being comfortable not knowing exactly where it\u2019s going to go eventually, but being able to ask the questions and really strategize with the client; you\u2019re obviously very comfortable having that conversation, probably because of your coaching experience and some other things, but it\u2019s something that the rest of us need to develop.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Christine:<\/strong> And you know, that\u2019s true. One of the things that I can tell people, I learned Xerox sales training\u2014I said a hundred years ago\u2014which was the best training that I learned for having conversations, even before coaching, and it was: spin, situation, problem, implication, need; and we all know as copywriters the P.A.S.\u2014the problem-agitation-solution&#8230;it\u2019s really having conversation around that. You know? We write that way, but when we start thinking about the conversations we need to have early on with clients, it\u2019s the same thing, you know. What are those problems that you\u2019re having? How is that going to impact your business if you don\u2019t fix it? And, what are our next steps going forward? It almost comes down to those conversations like that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>No, that\u2019s a really good reminder that this is something that we do as copywriters, but we don\u2019t necessarily incorporate it into the sales conversation. Christine, I\u2019d love to know more about how you landed this engineering client, because we\u2019ve had some side conversations about it, and how you pitched them, but it worked; you landed them. It was a big project. Can you talk about how you actually did it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Christine:<\/strong> Yeah, it was a referral from one of my mastermind buddies. It was just not a project that she could take on, and, so I got on the conversation, I got on the phone call with them, and I said, \u201cOkay. What\u2019s going on for you?\u201d You know, you\u2019re looking at copy&#8230; The one thing that I found also with clients, and especially this conversation, is people want direct information. They don\u2019t want to be sugarcoated. So I told him\u2014I said, \u201cYou know, looking at your site, I felt like I was being yelled at, because there\u2019s a lot of clutter&#8230;\u201d You know, we know as copywriters when we see the visual, and we read it, do we feel like we\u2019re being yelled at? Does it trigger something in us that makes us want to leave the page? So there was a lot of that going on.<\/p>\n<p>We actually started just talking strategy, and it ended up being a lot more again than just copy, but he was very open and receptive to that, because it was something that their company was growing and shifting and changing, so yes. We started that conversation; he\u2019s like, \u201cOkay! I get it, so let\u2019s do something about it!\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cOkay!\u201d <em>Laughs<\/em>. And, just having come back into copywriting full-time a year ago, I was like, \u201cOh my God, how am I going to do this?\u201d But, putting all my business experience together, the writing\u2014when I wasn\u2019t writing I did a lot of sales pages for myself\u2014so, I just kind of went, \u201cOh, okay! Where are we going to start?\u201d And we really did just start with that process, and it turned into several landing pages; it turned into email sequences; I got into talking with some other employees for different segments. So it was just having the confidence to talk to them in a very clear and concise way, and say, \u201cOkay. I <em>can<\/em> do this.\u201d And also, one of the things that I\u2019ve done over my <em>many, <\/em>many years is, I say to clients, \u201cIf I can\u2019t, I\u2019ll find the answer.\u201d And that\u2019s a big thing for people, because sometimes you know, we don\u2019t have all the answers, but if we can find out how to do that? Plus, also part of that was not just writing the copy, but I ended up finding a graphic designer, because I\u2019m not an agency and they were kind of looking for that. I said, \u201cI have a graphic designer, and I have a web designer, that if that helps get this contract, I can talk to them.\u201d And he\u2019s like, \u201cYou got it.\u201d So it was just kind of the way everything fell into place, but I was afraid to ask him those questions.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Yeah, I think that takes a lot of confidence, right, to have those conversations, and to be able to just say, \u201cYeah, I can handle this; I can find these people,\u201d and really show up as the consultant like you said, rather than just the copywriter who\u2019s going to wordsmith; you can bring in a team and solve problems. So it\u2019s a different type of attitude.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Christine: <\/strong>Definitely. And we are problem-solvers, you know? As we write copy, we certainly are. We\u2019re those problem-solvers, and because we\u2019re not so close to the business, we can look outside it and see some of the other things that are going on, and to be just really open and honest about what you <em>see, <\/em>because again, they don\u2019t always see those things, and because we\u2019re doing research and talking to other people within the company, sometimes their communication within their company is not as good as it could be, and so when you come in as an outsider and show them those things, in a kind of clear way, it helps them see past what the current situation is.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>Yeah. So, I want to talk about niching, because Rob and I love to talk about that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>Yes we <em>do<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Christine:<\/strong><em> Laughs.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>And, I know that you\u2019ve worked with makers; you have engineering clients&#8230; How are you kind of dealing with the transition and really discovering which niche you want to focus on over the next year? How do you really determine that when you seem to be drawn towards different niches at once?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Christine:<\/strong> Yeah. Oh that\u2019s such a good question, and niches is really important, because we can\u2019t be all things to all people, even though we want to be. Even though I love doing the technical stuff, the last one I did for the engineer was a landing page for data centers, so it was really great and it was really fun. But when I come back to the makers, you know, these are people that pour their heart and soul and passion into creating something that they want to get out into the world. And they need help with it; they don\u2019t necessarily have maybe the business of the marketing skills, or they just want to make product and they really don\u2019t know what their next steps are. So I really just keep gravitating to the maker niche. It was really interesting; I was trying to look up some stats, so I looked up Shopify. And, what astounds me is how fast the online ecommerce businesses are growing. It\u2019s anticipated to be 246.15% increase <em>worldwide <\/em>by 2021, you know? So, there\u2019s a lot of people out there that are moving maybe from corporate, or maybe they\u2019re being downsized, or maybe they\u2019re\u2014I hate to put it this way but\u2014aging out. You know? Being one of the oldest\u2014<em>laughs<\/em>\u2014Copywriter Club, I know what that feels like, and it\u2019s cool because I see other people not quitting, but shifting and moving into a passion. So, that\u2019s where this maker niche is really coming into play, because again, they want help; they want to get see; they want to get heard; they want to know how to market without feeling icky. And that\u2019s where that niche really started coming together for me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>So when you talk about makers, one of the things that immediately comes to my mind is that a lot of these people, they\u2019re just starting out. They may not have a lot of money. How do you help them in a way that doesn\u2019t hurt your own business so that you\u2019re basically not creating a non-profit for yourself?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Christine:<\/strong> Yeah, and you know, that\u2019s a really good point, and I\u2019ve been struggling with that a little bit over this past year, because makers don\u2019t have a lot of money and they don\u2019t have big budgets. So, what I\u2019m doing is putting together classes; there\u2019s a network I belong to that to that I\u2019ve been with since 2002 and I\u2019m their coach for that. And from that, I\u2019ve gotten information and done research on what these people need, so I\u2019m going to be putting together classes, and creating\u2014kind of like what you\u2019ve guys have done for <em>The Copywriter Club<\/em>\u2014I\u2019m going to do that for makers, at least for the ones just starting out or just within the first couple years of their businesses. For the ones that are\u2014have been in it for a decade or so, and are looking for growth and a shift, these are people that do have a budget so, it\u2019s easier to pitch and work, and do work for them, so that\u2019s kind of where I\u2019m headed, and I\u2019m still unfolding and still trying to get used to what that looks like, so, I\u2019m just learning everyday as I go along.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>So, Christine, you already have this platform for makers, right? You\u2019ve already been in that space, you\u2019re coaching in that space, but now you really want to monetize it, it sounds like, and I imagine someone listening may be thinking the same thing for a different niche that they want to create a platform, and offer different products and services and programs. So where would you recommend they start? Have you done anything or taken a step that\u2019s worked so far?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Christine:<\/strong> Yeah; recently we had Danny Iny on for the think-tank, and that was really great, that Teach &amp; Grow Rich? That was a really good source and kind of validated for me the importance of being able to teach for people, again, that don\u2019t have that budget. So, that was really big resource; of course I\u2019ve looked at some of the other people out there teaching. The way Joanna teaches her classes have really impacted me as well, because they\u2019re so detailed, and they\u2019re so full of information that can really help people move along. So that was my idea of starting to create classes for people, and start monetizing that end of it. I\u2019m also playing with product-type services, so you know, for people that need maybe an about page, or product descriptions? They can\u2019t do custom work or not ready for a big custom project? That also helps monetize, or doing web copy audits. Those are things that we can monetize that people need but also don\u2019t break their bank, but gives them a lot of information especially, you know\u2014makers like to do their own stuff, I\u2019ve found. So it gives them enough information that they can actually go and change and work on their sites themselves, but yet have out professional expert advice and helping them do that. And I\u2019m still playing with those, because it\u2019s going to shift and change and I\u2019m sure over the next year, but, that\u2019s where I\u2019m headed.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>So, Christine, you mentioned that you belong to a mastermind. You mentioned the think-tank that you\u2019ve also belonged in. I\u2019m sitting here listening to you talk about your business; I know that you\u2019re busy with your kids as well. Why is learning so important to you, and how do you find the time and the money to do it, you know? Why are you involved in a mastermind and the think-tank and trying to grow like that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Christine:<\/strong> Oh, that\u2019s such a good question. You know, we can\u2019t do this in a bubble. And, you know, we\u2019ve all talked about being introverts. One of the things that I\u2019ve found\u2014and it\u2019s <em>really,<\/em> really easy for me to do\u2014is hermit, so I can get in my bubble and I can work and do things and try to think and work my way through whatever situation. And find that it gets really lonely, or, I\u2019m in my head too much, and then I start questioning: \u201cWhat the heck am I doing? What\u2019s going on; is this right?\u201d So, for me, it was really getting out and I only know as much as I know. There\u2019s so much more out there, and that was one of the really important things about joining the mastermind last year, because again, getting <em>back<\/em> into copywriting? It was changed so much from when I did it twenty years ago. It\u2019s faster, it\u2019s different. We speak differently, it\u2019s not dry. There is same but different processes, so I really needed to learn that.<\/p>\n<p>I didn\u2019t feel comfortable really going out\u2014you know, I know we talk about imposter syndrome\u2014and I was feeling like that, but really I looked at the level of competence, so I was kind of at the conscious incompetence phase, and, I didn\u2019t like the way it felt. So, for me, I also loved to learn. And there\u2019s always something to learn to get better at. So that\u2019s why mastermind and think-tanks are so important, as far as, you know&#8230;it\u2019s money worth spending when it\u2019s a really good program. I have, in the past, spent money on programs that I look at myself and go\u2014I hate to say it this way but, I\u2019m a better coach than that. What did I learn and what did I take away? So I also make it a point to research what\u2019s out there that will help me\u2014not just another bright, shiny object\u2014but what\u2019s really my goal, and what\u2019s going to help me <em>learn<\/em> so I can get to the next level of my business?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>Beyond learning, which is clearly important here, and getting out of your bubble, where do you think most copywriters today, where do they kind of fall down and plateau? What are they not doing that they should be doing?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Christine: <\/strong>Learning. Always being open to whatever\u2019s out there, because again marketing is changing. Business is changing. The internet is changing. Part of, you know, having conversations like in <em>The Copywriter Club<\/em>, or masterminds, or just getting together with other people and marketing and copywriting, having conversations, you start to see that what you may know is good and other people don\u2019t know it, so you need to share it, right? So you\u2019re still teaching other people. They have other things going on for them that they\u2019ve learned that you can learn, and it\u2019s just a way of growing and becoming better at what you do and not stagnated because, we can certainly get to a point where we feel like, \u201cAlright, I got this,\u201d and then something else will show up and you\u2019re like, \u201cOkay, no, I don\u2019t have this.\u201d So, really being open to what\u2019s out there I think is super-important for people.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> So Christine, this might come across as a little bit of a different question\u2014at least different from what I usually ask\u2014but anybody who knows you who\u2019s seen the videos that you\u2019ve done online or seen you in The Copywriter Club, how we\u2019ve interfaced with you in the think-tank\u2014you are incredibly positive and upbeat. It seems like all the time. So, what\u2019s the secret? How do you stay up so much?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Christine:<\/strong> I go to my room and I cry and scream when I don\u2019t feel\u2014<em>no, laughs.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong><em>Laughs<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Christine:<\/strong> No, I have my down times, but you know, what I\u2019ve learned over these many, many years, really since my first child\u2019s passing as well, is that it\u2019s really easy to get down. As a matter of fact, we\u2019re kind of doing that with my son right now and his transition to a new college. It\u2019s easy to feel that way, so, for me, being upbeat is, there\u2019s two ways to go\u2014you can either spiral down, or spiral up. And, it\u2019s a lot of work to feel crappy! You know, what I do is I recognize if I\u2019m having a down day, I recognize, okay this doesn\u2019t feel good. I\u2019ll either go for a run, or I\u2019ll get my mind off of something and do something else, or do something creative. But it just feels better to be upbeat. And I know sometimes people look and go, <em>scoff<\/em>&#8230; My daughter makes a joke of it. She\u2019s like, \u201cWe\u2019re all winners here, because&#8230;\u201d That\u2019s the way I come across, and I\u2019m like, but, I really feel like that you know, because there\u2019s always something good to find in all the garbage and things that go on in our head. So it\u2019s just a matter of really finding that, because, I can get really low, and I don\u2019t like the way that feels.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Christine, so, we\u2019ve talked a little bit about this, but, because you have such an eclectic background, you\u2019ve been in multiple spaces&#8230;for a new copywriter who\u2019s trying to figure out where to focus their attention, and where they can really make a name for themselves, where would you say the best opportunity is online today in copywriting?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Christine:<\/strong> For me\u2014and again when I think about the space I\u2019m going into with makers and ecommerce, again\u2014the ecommerce statistics are staggering. When you go from one-point-three-trillion in sales in 2014, to four-point-three-<em>trillion<\/em> dollars in 2021, there is more and more people going into the ecommerce space. And, if you look at different ecommerce sites out there, and this might be a great place for those copywriters who are interested in that space, go look at different sites that are out there, different brands, different companies.<\/p>\n<p>Start taking a look at what they\u2019re saying. Because the one thing that I\u2019ve found, and why I still am so interested in that space, is so many of the same brand that sell the same types of products say the <em>exact<\/em> same thing. So they\u2019re not standing out, so as a copywriter and as a strategist, you can really help those ecommerce brands stand out by helping them create a story or copy, or content that helps them engage not only in their story, understand their customers a little bit better because our customers are key to everything in our business, and really help them grow.<\/p>\n<p>I know ecommerce isn\u2019t like, in some other businesses where people may love to write long-form sales pages, and do that, ecommerce helps you hone in your skills on writing short content, and short copy, because it has to be those value props that really catch the attention the second somebody lands on a page. So, it definitely makes you work your copywriter chops more, but it\u2019s fun. Writing descriptions\u2014I always come back to Jay Peterman. If you guys ever watch <em>Seinfeld<\/em>, Elaine used to work for Jay Peterman, with the urban sombrero.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>Yep.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Christine:<\/strong> And, you know, it\u2019s really <em>fun <\/em>to write descriptions and copy that put your customer, you know\u2014your customer\u2019s the hero of the story\u2014put your customer in the story? That just engages them and, you know, helps them get to that buying point faster.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>This has been an incredible discussion. We really appreciate you coming to share so much about your personal experience as well as your business experience, this has been great. Christine if people want to connect with you or find you online, where should they go?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Christine:<\/strong> Yeah they can connect with my on my website\u2014ba6marketing.com, and it\u2019s B-A-6 marketing dot com. I\u2019m also on Facebook, I\u2019m on Instagram, on I\u2019m Twitter, I\u2019m on LinkedIn. So, you can find me there and I do hang out in <em>The Copywriter Club<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>Yep, you\u2019re there quite a bit. We appreciate it, your contributions, and this discussion. It\u2019s been awesome.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Christine:<\/strong> Great guys, thanks so much for having me.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>For episode 77 of\u00a0The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk with copywriter and marketing specialist Christine Laureano about her business, what it\u2019s like to work with different niches that [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_coblocks_attr":"","_coblocks_dimensions":"","_coblocks_responsive_height":"","_coblocks_accordion_ie_support":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[2],"tags":[102,3],"class_list":["post-1302","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-podcast","tag-christine-laureano","tag-podcast"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v26.7 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>TCC Podcast #77: Processes, Niches and Investing in Yourself with Christine Laureano - The Copywriter Club<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Copywriter and marketing strategist Christine Laureano talks about going from the corporate world to copywriter, e-commerce, dealing with tragedy, landing engineering clients, working with makers, and how she stays upbeat through it all. Available on iTunes or by clicking here.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/processes-investing-in-yourself-christine-laureano\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"TCC Podcast #77: Processes, Niches and Investing in Yourself with Christine Laureano - The Copywriter Club\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Copywriter and marketing strategist Christine Laureano talks about going from the corporate world to copywriter, e-commerce, dealing with tragedy, landing engineering clients, working with makers, and how she stays upbeat through it all. 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