{"id":1403,"date":"2018-03-15T16:23:37","date_gmt":"2018-03-15T09:23:37","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/?p=1403"},"modified":"2018-10-20T22:03:03","modified_gmt":"2018-10-20T15:03:03","slug":"copywriting-secrets-bond-halbert","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/copywriting-secrets-bond-halbert\/","title":{"rendered":"TCC Podcast #83: Copywriting Secrets Learned from a Legend with Bond Halbert"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>In the direct response world everyone knows the name, Gary Halbert. He\u2019s often called the best copywriter who ever lived. And if we could, we\u2019d ask Gary to be on the show, but alas, that\u2019s not possible, so we\u2019ve done the next best thing. Bond Halbert is the guest for episode 83 of\u00a0<em>The Copywriter Club Podcast.<\/em>\u00a0Kira and Rob sat down with Bond to talk about his famous dad and the lessons he\u2019s learned from a lifetime (literally) learning copy. We talked about:<\/p>\n<p>\u2022 \u00a0his path into the world of copywriting (it all starts with his dad)<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0the story behind <em>The Boron Letters<\/em> and why Gary wrote them to Bond<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0why Gary Halbert went to prison for a crime he didn\u2019t commit (really)<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0the 2-3 most important lessons he learned from Gary Halbert<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0how he divides his work into thirds<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0the four kinds of readers you\u2019ll attract to your copy<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0why copywriters are good at headlines but bad at closes<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0what he does to nail the close<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0the importance being persuasive in person (not just in copy)<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0where good copy really comes from<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0what Bond\u2019s research process involves<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0his hack for finding the problems your customers want to solve<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0why expertise is relative (the differing levels of expertise)<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0the formula he leans toward when he writes for his clients<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0why you need to create a compelling sense of urgency in every sales message (and how to do it)<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0why he wrote Part III of <em>The Halbert Copywriting Method<\/em> first<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0how he talks differently about positive and negative ideas in his copy (we hadn\u2019t heard this anywhere else before)<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0how (and why) Bond\u2019s relationship with money is different from his father\u2019s<\/p>\n<p>This interview was so good that it went a little long, but we think you&#8217;ll learn a lot from the extra time we spent talking about copywriting. To get this one, visit iTunes, Stitcher or your favorite podcast app. Or simply click\u00a0the play button below. And of course, you can scroll down for a full transcript.<\/p>\n<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_1747\"><!--[if lt IE 9]><script>document.createElement('audio');<\/script><![endif]-->\n<audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-1403-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC083BH.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC083BH.mp3\">https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC083BH.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC083BH.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/?powerpress_pinw=1403-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC083BH.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"TCC083BH.mp3\">Download<\/a><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/thecopywriterclub.com\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<h3>The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:<\/h3>\n<p><em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/gp\/product\/1484825985\/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=9325&amp;creativeASIN=1484825985&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;tag=brandstory00-20&amp;linkId=6ad46e552271350bbc3b8c646735391a\">The Boron Letters<\/a><\/em><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/parris-lampropoulos-96531630\/\">Parris Lampropolous<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/gp\/offer-listing\/B0072Y5ILI\/ref=dp_olp_new_mbc?ie=UTF8&amp;condition=new\"><em>How to Make Maximum Money in Minimal Time<\/em><\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Glengarry_Glen_Ross_(film)\">Glenn Gary Glen Ross<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/email-copywriter-big-jason-henderson\/\">Big Jason Henderson<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.sammarkowitzgroup.com\">Sam Markowitz<\/a><br \/>\n<em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/gp\/product\/1534632050\/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=9325&amp;creativeASIN=1534632050&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;tag=brandstory00-20&amp;linkId=17d200d7daa6f23d9d9afae44ca01ef6\">The Halbert Copywriting Writing Method, Part III<\/a><br \/>\n<\/em><a href=\"http:\/\/bondhalbert.com\">BondHalbert.com<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.thegaryhalbertletter.com\">TheGaryHalbertLetter.com<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/halbertising.com\">Halbertising.com<\/a><br \/>\nEmail: bond@thegaryhalbertletter.com<br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/kirahug.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Kira\u2019s website<\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/kaleighmoore.us11.list-manage.com\/subscribe?u=7bdb50a2eb0d5b0a501cd1bf4&amp;id=9bf46b3e1d\"><br \/>\n<\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/www.brandstoryonline.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Rob\u2019s website<\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/kaleighmoore.us11.list-manage.com\/subscribe?u=7bdb50a2eb0d5b0a501cd1bf4&amp;id=9bf46b3e1d\"><br \/>\n<\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/groups\/thecopywriterclub\/\">The Copywriter Club Facebook Group<\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\"><br \/>\n<\/a>Intro:\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/soundcloud.com\/fauves\/content-for-now\">Content (for now)<\/a><br \/>\nOutro:\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/album\/gravity\/id304219081?i=304219099\">Gravity<\/a>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<h3>Full Transcript:<\/h3>\n<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright wp-image-1423 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/03\/Bond-Small.png\" alt=\"Copywriter Bond Halbert\" width=\"300\" height=\"300\" srcset=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/03\/Bond-Small.png 300w, https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/03\/Bond-Small-150x150.png 150w, https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/03\/Bond-Small-50x50.png 50w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That\u2019s what Kira and I do every week at<em> The Copywriter Club Podcast<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> You\u2019re invited to join the club for episode 83 as we talk with copywriter and marketer Bond Halbert about the most important lessons he learned from his father, the man many called the greatest copywriter ever lived; the story behind The Boron Letters; the formulas, tactics, and strategies he uses to make effective copy; and what he\u2019s doing to carry on Gary\u2019s legacy.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Hey Bond!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Welcome, Bond!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> Hi! Thank you for having me here!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Yeah we\u2019re thrilled to have you; when we made a list of all of the guests that we wanted to interview eventually on the podcast, your name was one of the first ones that we added, and so it\u2019s taken us a little while to get to you, but we are glad that you\u2019re finally here.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond: <\/strong>Oh! I didn\u2019t know that, I would have come sooner! <em>Laughs<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> <em>Laughs<\/em>. This is perfect; perfect timing. Episode 83 is a good episode. So Bond, let\u2019s start with your story, especially for people who are less familiar with you, you know; how\u2014how did you get into this wonderful world of copywriting and marketing?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> I\u2019m going to try to make this really short, because I know I\u2019ve given this to people who\u2019ve heard me on other podcasts, and I like to give people as much, like, new stuff as I can, and tactical advice. Basically, my dad quit his last\u2014got <em>fired<\/em> from his job\u2014the day before I was born. And, he started getting into the world of copywriting and direct marketing on, basically, the day I <em>was<\/em> born. So, I grew up in the business, but, one day what happened was, I was talking to him\u2014we were walking down the street\u2014and my dad had this kind of rocky up-and-down relationship with money. And so, a lot of people don\u2019t know it, but, you know, his ability to make money was only really eclipsed by his ability to blow it. And he didn\u2019t do this on purpose\u2014it took me many years to figure out that he was addicted to like, needing to have a big win, then making a big win. <em>Laughs<\/em>. And so, one time he was needing a big win, and I turned to him and said, \u201cYou know, I\u2019m really lucky.\u201d He said, \u201cWhy?\u201d And I said, \u201cMy oldest brother got to grow up with, you know, all the toys and pleasures of being a rich kid. I get to see how to <em>make it<\/em>,\u201d and he thought that was really, really smart thing for a ten-year-old to say. So, he singled me out and started, you know, because after&#8230; he started, you know, making money in copywriting. He made big wins, by breaking the rules and doing things the way he wanted; he decided he was going to parent that way too. So what he decided that what he was going to do is teach me from an early age; he wasn\u2019t going to put me through the standard \u2018go to high school; go to college\u2019 blah blah blah blah. He started mentoring me right away, and he started taking me, you know, I was flying all over the country and internationally a little bit, on business trips so that I could learn what he was doing. He would explain what he was going to do; I would be in the meetings and hanging out with them, and then he would explain what happened <em>in<\/em> the meeting you know, afterwards\u2014we called it, it was like from the military, we called it an \u201cafter action\u201d, so, I started getting this incredibly early education. Even before that, I was stuffing, stamping, and sealing envelopes for test mailing as long as I can remember. I mean, as a little kid. <em>Laughs.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond: <\/strong>So I\u2019ve just been in direct response for ages, and that, that\u2019s how I got into it. I know most people have a, you know, \u201cI was sleeping in my car\u201d story that everybody really appreciates\u2014<em>laughs<\/em>. I&#8230;I just, you know. I was born into it, I will admit it. But I did earn everything that I know, you know? And a lot of times, what I would do it I would do a podcast or an interview and people would like, you know, do you mine talking about my dad, and I was like, \u201cSure, I love my dad; I\u2019ll talk about him all day long, and if that\u2019s all you want to talk about, I will.\u201d But I little while into it, they\u2019d realize it, you know, I did a lot of stuff on my own, and then eventually, my podcast, at the end, they stopped asking about my dad completely, and then recently we\u2019ve been doing a lot more stuff to bring my dad\u2019s, you know, highlight stuff. So, like, we\u2019re going to be having a memorial seminar for his 80<sup>th<\/sup> birthday in June coming up. And, we do a lot of things to make sure that he\u2019s not only in the spotlight still, which we don\u2019t really have to do because as Parris Lampropoulos once said, \u201cIn the world of copy, all roads lead to Gary Halbert.\u201d But, you know, to make sure that everybody knows that we don\u2019t, we&#8212;<em>everything<\/em>. You know, my dad used to say this to me, and I give him credit \u00a0and I say it\u2019s true. He says, you know, \u201cEvery single thing that you do well, I get credit for because I taught you how to think. Everything you don\u2019t do well, well, that\u2019s your mom or somebody else.\u201d <em>Laughs<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> I like that; I like that, yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> <em>Laughs<\/em>. \u00a0<em>\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> So Bond, the first time I think that I came across your name, I was reading <em>The Boron Letters<\/em>, which were letters that your dad wrote to you when he was spending some time in jail. I\u2019m curious; you know, I think you were still really young when that happened, right? When you got those letters, was this stuff that resonated with you immediately, or did you sort of set them aside for a while, you know, until you were maybe mature enough to actually try out the things that Gary was telling you to do? Tell us the story behind that and, you know, how that all came about.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond: <\/strong>Well, I was fifteen\u2014I turned sixteen while I was in there. So he was sending me the letters, but he was kind of more or less letting-getting his ideas down on paper and his thoughts and his lessons. You know, there were people who were friends of us that he would teach some stuff, but he didn\u2019t really stop and like start mentoring, until me. And I\u2019m not saying I\u2019m his best mentee or anything like that. But what I am saying is, since I am the first, I saw these\u2014<em>all<\/em> these lessons that he gave and training of all these copywriters that he\u2019s famous for training. I was not only the first one, but I saw the lessons evolve over time, and stuff like this. So this was the very beginning of that. In fact, the Boron Letters is kind of like the outline for what turned out to be his newsletter. And then he took several of his key issues in his newsletter, and put them together in a book to produce his newsletter. The book was <em>How to Make Maximum Money in Minimal Time, <\/em>which will be available; again, CreateSpace, you know, stopped letting us use them unless they get a 70% commission, and we\u2019re going to have that back up and ready to offer in about a week. But, in any case, that book promoted his newsletter, so this kind of started this whole thing: it was the Boron Letters. And for me, a lot of the lessons I was already getting for a long time but he was kind of rehashing stuff, but he was going into more detail. So it wasn\u2019t as revolutionary to me when I received them. But what happened later, was I started to get a greater and greater appreciation. You know, when you\u2019re older and you start to have kids you start to understand things about your parents that you get now, because you\u2019re a parent, you\u2019re in their shoes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> So when I had my son, I was like, oh man! I now get why my dad had this extra amount of patience for me he had for nobody else in the world. I mean, nobody. <em>Laughs<\/em>. And I always later revealed in like, \u201cWhy would you put up with me?!\u201d I mean, he would have punched somebody else for doing that. And then I had my son and I was like, oh, wow, I get it. And what happened later on with <em>The Boron Letters<\/em>, I was like, oh my God, I get how special this is. And the best part about <em>The Boron Letters<\/em>, which is also a good piece of advice is, re-read it. I noticed that the quick, to the point books, like scientific advertising in <em>The Boron Letters<\/em>; you can pick them up and reread them once a year and there\u2019s a hundred different nuggets in there and there\u2019s several nuggets in every paragraph. And what happens is you turn around and you go, oh yeah! That\u2019s right! I forgot\u2014I need to start personalizing my campaigns; I haven\u2019t been doing that a lot. Or, I need to start targeting in this way or that way. The books, the impactful books, are the ones you get more out of the more often you read them. And they\u2019re great reminders that they should be read once a year. And I do it, several of us do it, you know, and it became a cult classic. It was really funny. My dad first said, do you mind if I publish these- some of the wild ones? I said no, go ahead. No, as in, no, I don\u2019t mind. And you know, he did that and everybody just really loved the raw honesty of it and they loved the life lessons and by the way, none of it is contrived. That is the relationship my father and I have. Complete and total open honesty and this real closeness all the time. That was the way he and I were the whole ride. And I\u2019m very fortunate for that. One of the things I consider myself fortunate for is having a great relationship with both my parents.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Now, for someone listening who\u2019s like, okay, I want to read <em>The Boron Letters<\/em>, where can they find <em>The Boron Letters<\/em> today?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond: <\/strong>I\u2019ll tell you! You can read just the regular version online at thegaryhalbertletter.com but I put out a version on Amazon where you can go and get the print version or the e-book version, but I\u2019ve added commentary that explains what\u2019s going on behind the scenes at that time. And it also helps update things to say, this is a more modern way that you\u2019re doing this. So, for example, my dad, one of his big breakthroughs was figuring out how to get mail opened and read more, for direct mail. And then I used the principles and the concepts behind it and I started experimenting and started getting astronomically high open rates for email. And that\u2019s according to Aweber and Get Response. They\u2019re rep said man, you get really high open rates! <em>Laughs<\/em>. And I started doing that and\u2014I\u2019m not saying that\u2019s all outlined in the book. What happens is, since the book was written so long ago, sometimes people don\u2019t see just how this applies today. So the commentaries in there will help do that but they\u2019ll also give you some behind the scenes look at what was going on from my perspective and my point of view because while he was writing these letters, I was also driving out there to deliver his work. I was his messenger and liaison between his clients and him while he was there. The added commentaries are about those. And you can get that on Amazon\u2014I think it\u2019s like $10 for an e-book, maybe $20 or something for the print version. It\u2019s been a long time since I\u2019ve been there. <em>Laughs. <\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Okay, and you mentioned while he was there, and you\u2019re speaking about prison, right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> Yep.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> So for someone who\u2019s not as familiar with your father, can you share why he was in prison and also, what was that like for you as a fifteen year old, to have a father in prison?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> You know, it wasn\u2019t something that I was like totally ashamed or shocked of or anything like that&#8230; and the one thing that happened was, my dad actually did get railroaded for something he did not do. I know a lot of people say that but I can actually prove it. My dad had a long history of running direct mail campaigns and stuff like that. In 1976 he started running a commemorative plate campaign, where they were making plates to commemorate the 200<sup>th<\/sup> anniversary of the country. And so he needed some money so he went to a list broker and the list broker said I got a really hot list that would buy these commemorative plates. And he said okay, it\u2019s a big list. He said okay, give me a thousand names to test.<\/p>\n<p>My dad didn\u2019t know any better at the time, so the guy gives him a thousand names, but he doesn\u2019t just give him a thousand names, he takes that list and compares them with other commemorative lists and he pulls out the thousand names that are on every single one of these lists. So the test does really well. My dad orders up all of the names, he starts to mail to make money and get this in while the anniversary is hot. Well, of course, the list doesn\u2019t perform the way that the test does because not everybody is such a hot buyer, and as a result, they couldn\u2019t keep up and make all the orders and the refunds. Somebody complained to the postal inspectors. They come by and they see that my dad is living in this really expensive house, which he rented, but at the moment he needed money.<\/p>\n<p>Remember? I told you\u2014this is a rocky relationship with money. So, my dad makes the foolish mistake of inviting them in and saying here, come on, look at my books, I\u2019m telling you, this is an honest mistake and this is how it happened. And they just used all of that as evidence to prove that he intended to run this ad and he never intended on fulfilling the orders. Even though he had a long history of fulfilling orders and building companies that did, right? So in any other instance, it would\u2019ve been a company that just filed bankruptcy, right? But anyway, it\u2019s a long, long story about how his trials went, because he had\u2014he won an appeal that he said he shouldn\u2019t have won but he got convicted of something he shouldn\u2019t have been convicted for.<\/p>\n<p>But when he went in there, he was very nervous before he went in. That was the scariest part for both of us, right before he went in, and not knowing what it was going to be like. Once he was in there, it turned out to be one of the best experiences of his life. He got into shape, he immediately said you know what? I didn\u2019t do this, but I\u2019ve done other things and I\u2019m considering this cleaning my karmic slate and I\u2019ve done my time and after this, I\u2019m going to come out and I\u2019m going to take the world by the horns, and he did, and he met some very savvy and influential people in there because he\u2019s not in state prison, he\u2019s in a federal prison camp. And I\u2019d go visit him in the visiting yard, there was a limousine that was parked there because after a certain amount of time, you get a certain amount of doing your sentence, you\u2019d get some leave time, where they would let you out for a weekend and there was a guy there who kept a limousine parked there so that he could hop into the limousine and immediately start having a good time, as soon as they released him for the weekend. So he\u2019s not\u2014I mean, he <em>is<\/em> in there with some murderers and drug dealers and all these people who are working their way from maximum level to being you know, out on parole or probation and everything, but there really were&#8230;.you know, he was actually in there with some savvy folks.<\/p>\n<p>Anyway, so, once he was in there getting in shape and doing his thing and everything else, it turned out to be something that hardened him, made him a better, stronger person, and you know, we both learned a lot from that. I learned lessons throughout that whole thing that have benefited me better in life. And I\u2019m talking about legal lessons, and everything about it. So, it wasn\u2019t a traumatic thing for me, you know, I will admit. But that\u2019s the short version of how he got in there and what happened.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Yeah, and he has, I think&#8230;one of the issues of <em>The Gary Halbert Letter<\/em>, he actually talks about that whole process of what happened, which is really interesting to read. But, I\u2019m really curious, Bond, about the copywriting and marketing lessons that you learned from your dad. I know there are probably hundreds of them, but if you had to pick a top three or four things that he taught you about copywriting, what would they be?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> The number one mistake everybody seems to make in my opinion, and I think it\u2019s my dad\u2019s, is you know, they should really take writing out of it. Because the truth is, the writing isn\u2019t the key part. It\u2019s not the hard part; it\u2019s not the talent. You want to be brief, concise. You want people to get your message, and most of all, you want to be <em>compelling<\/em>. You don\u2019t want to be poetic. You know? It\u2019s about persuasions; \u00a0it\u2019s about communications. You know, one of the things that people now really get a lot thanks to my dad is they shoot for a fifth grade reading level. I shoot for third grade, to tell you the truth, because nobody\u2019s going to complain that \u201cyou\u2019re too clear\u201d, you know? So somebody will say, \u201cWell you must understand,\u201d and I\u2019ll say, \u201cWell you got to get.\u201d <em>Laughs<\/em>. And the point that I\u2019m making is, they worry about how they\u2019re going to start that copy, and they\u2019re worried about how they\u2019re going to make this transition and everything, and that\u2019s not the part to worry about. And, I\u2019m going to give you lots of tips in this little explanation of what I\u2019m trying to say here.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Excellent.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> What I do is\u2014and, everybody does it differently. Some people just research until they get it, and then they start writing their first draft. Other people, they have different formulas. I use \u201cone-third, one-third, one-third\u201d; that\u2019s just me. I\u2019m not saying it\u2019s right for everybody. But one-third of the process for me is doing research. And so if you have three hours to write an email, the first hour is going to be research. That\u2019s where all the power in your marketing comes from, because knowing and understanding your customer is more important than anything else.<\/p>\n<p>The example I always use in the Domino\u2019s Pizza campaign, because everybody was running on the idea, the \u201cI got Mama Mia\u2019s, Grandma\u2019s from Italy\u2019s famous sauce recipe for my pizza,\u201d or \u201cwe use the freshest ingredients\u201d, and everybody had heard that a million times. What nobody paid attention to is all the customers were sick and tired of not knowing when that pizza was going to be delivered. So Domino\u2019s said, we\u2019re going to do thirty minutes or less. Now, they could\u2019ve said \u201chalf an hour or it\u2019s on us,\u201d \u201cthirty minutes or it\u2019s free\u201d; they could\u2019ve said \u201cthirty minutes or less, or you don\u2019t pay\u201d&#8230;.they could\u2019ve put that offer any way they wanted, and they still would\u2019ve crushed it. Right? Because they knew what the customers wanted. They did some research. And, and it doesn\u2019t have to be a ton of research, but that\u2019s what really made that offer fantastic.<\/p>\n<p>So the <em>power<\/em> in your marketing is all in knowing your customers. And then, the talent really comes from after doing that research, or being part of the market. And, going through the processes yourself; the talent is in developing a unique\u2014a big idea\u2014which is either a unique hook, offer, or solution. And the solution could be a unique solution for the customers themselves like the \u201cthirty minutes or it\u2019s free\u201d, or it could be a unique marketing solution like \u201chow to get your advertising for half of what everyone else is paying\u201d, right? That gives you the advantage. But that\u2019s where the talent kind of comes in. And then, the middle-third is about walking around, gelling with all that in your head, getting your big idea, and then popping out a first draft. And that first draft can be as ugly as can be. It can be disjointed and terrible.<\/p>\n<p>The last third is where your editing comes into play, and that\u2019s where all the professionalism in marketing comes from. There\u2019s anybody can have a great idea in the shower, or driving down the street in their car, and pull over and right down a headline. And you\u2019ll see them write copy and I see this all the time; and you\u2019re reading the copy, and it starts off really strong, and then just falls apart in the end, and there\u2019s typos and everything, and it stinks. And you\u2019re like, \u201cOkay\u201d. And I know exactly what happened. Because that person, you know, they didn\u2019t edit it ten times. And the way it works is\u2014and this is another tip\u2014edit is complete passes, you know? Editing from the beginning and don\u2019t stop until the end. Because what people will do is they\u2019ll get on the computer, they\u2019ll start reading from the beginning, they\u2019ll find the mistake, they\u2019ll fix it, then they\u2019ll go back and start reading from the beginning again. And by the time they get to the bottom, the top\u2019s been looked at and revised twenty times and the bottom has been revised <em>once<\/em>. Right? And the bottom is the close, right?<\/p>\n<p>You have four types of readers: you have the reader that, you know, skims the headline, the bullets, the offer, the PS, and decides to buy or not; you have the people who start reading from the beginning and continue reading until they are sure that this offer is not for them, or they can move on without feeling like they\u2019re missing something in their life; you have a third type that comes and then they, you know, they skim but they find something of interest like a subhead or a bullet and they start reading from that point forward; or the fourth kind, which skims it, and then makes the decision on whether or not they need to read it. And then they go back and start reading from the top. But, that means that, you know, the end is still very important. Yes, the headline is nothing. It\u2019s a chain link. Everything stops at that first link; the headline doesn\u2019t grab attention, so it is extremely, critically important. But, everybody really can do that, I think. Some people are better at it than others, but everybody is better writing headlines than they are writing closes. Right? <em>Laughs<\/em>. Because they have more practice at it. They don\u2019t sit and then come up with the big idea for the close in the shower or in their car.<\/p>\n<p>So, you know, you\u2019re writing for those four types of people, and if you\u2019re not editing all the way through and making sure you\u2019re ending on a punch or in the middle you\u2019re keeping them reading and stuff like that, you\u2019re going to do yourself a disservice. Back to the original point: the shortest part of this entire process is actually writing that first draft. So, if you\u2019re sitting around staring at a blank screen and wondering what to say, you either don\u2019t know a hack for getting yourself writing, or you\u2019re actually not ready to write. Because you know, you should be itching: \u201cOh, I got to tell them this; I got to tell them <em>this; <\/em>and I got to tell them <em>that<\/em>.\u201d And you just start pounding that out, and not worrying about how smooth it is, and you smooth it all out during the editing process, which is actually\u2014wasn\u2019t really covered until I wrote about it. But, if you know it, it\u2019s really a formula, you know? It\u2019s not a talent. It\u2019s something that you can do, and I\u2019ve kind of proven that, and so the point of the writing part being the real quick part\u2014it\u2019s the knowing people. It\u2019s like, \u201cOh I got to deal that\u2019s going to make them want my offer more than anybody else\u2019s. I got a solution, that&#8230;<em>man<\/em>, I wish I would have had this when I started in the market.\u201d You know?<\/p>\n<p>And that\u2019s the offer I\u2019m going to make and, you know, here\u2019s what\u2019s going to make it really compelling: \u201cOh, I\u2019m going to make a double-your-money-back guarantee, because nobody is offering this, and I know that I can structure it in a way that nobody can cash in on the double-your-money-back guarantee. It\u2019s really about persuasion and compelling; it\u2019s not about the writing. You don\u2019t want anybody to turn around and go, \u201cWow, he writes really well.\u201d <em>Laughs<\/em>. You don\u2019t want them to say, you know&#8230; It\u2019s like going to meetings\u2014I talked to my dad about that. He\u2019s like, \u201cYou know, you don\u2019t want to go into a meeting and have them say, you know, \u2018she\u2019s dressed well\u2019. You want them to <em>not<\/em> notice that. You don\u2019t want them to go, \u2018wow, he showed up in jeans and a tee-shirt with holes in it\u2019, but you also don\u2019t want them going, \u2018wow\u2014look\u2019, you know. You want them paying attention to your <em>words<\/em>.\u201d You want them paying attention to your offer, and I think a lot of people think that copywriting is more about being a good writer.<\/p>\n<p>And, it\u2019s so\u2014again, back to the original point\u2014persuasion is about&#8230;. if you can persuade well in person, you can persuade well in print. And, my dad was experimenting with people and getting to know them, getting to know their hot buttons, getting to know everything about them in person, <em>all the time<\/em>. And that\u2019s what translated into his writing. He did not write all the time; he didn\u2019t write as often as most people who want to become writers writer. What he did was he experimented with people. So he would come up with ideas and hooks and he would run them by people and say, \u201cHey, I just figured out a way to do this and that,\u201d and he\u2019d see if it peaked your interest. And then if it piqued your interest, that might end up making it into a headline.<\/p>\n<p>And, you know, he did a lot of time doing his research for products and services unless he knew the market really, really well already. And then he would experiment with people in person; he would pay attention. In fact, his most widely-mailed newsletter in history he wrote, he went door to door and would pitch people, and would pay attention to their eyes and their facial expressions to see where he was losing them, and what was exciting them, in helping him craft that letter. So you know, I tell people, good copy comes from good conversation. So if you say something that, you know, all of a sudden, everybody just laughs or everybody goes, \u201cOh, <em>whoa!<\/em> I can\u2019t believe you said that!\u201d and it grips them and now you\u2019ve started a conversation, that\u2019s going to be good copy in print too.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Yeah, I like that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> You know, I did that one time. I had a friend and I said if it wasn\u2019t for <em>The Boron Letters<\/em>, people wouldn\u2019t understand what an education I had so early in life, they would never believe it. And I said, \u201cThank God my dad went to prison.\u201d And my friend just started laughing, and laughing. So, it became a subject line! <em>Laughs<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Wow. So it seems like\u2014this might be hard to hear from some of our listeners who are introverted and the idea of going out there door to door and speaking to people. Like, we just want to hide behind our laptop, right? But it seems like what worked for Gary was getting out there, and sitting with people and talking to people. And that was part of <em>his <\/em>process, that\u2019s what worked for <em>him. <\/em>What else did you do in your research process that maybe was less attached to speaking to people face-to-face? What else worked for you?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> <em>Being a customer<\/em>. You know? I\u2019ll give you an example. I didn\u2019t spend too much time with watch people. I collect watched; not really expensive ones, I only have a couple of expensive ones, but I have like seventy watches from like the 60\u2019s and 50\u2019s and 80\u2019s and stuff. And, I was collecting watches; and, one thing that I hate is <em>haggling<\/em>. And so&#8230; but it\u2019s a jewelry business, and in the jewelry business, you haggle, and they start off with really high prices and expect you to haggle down. So I developed these like strange techniques for getting a decent deal, and research or finding a good deal. And it wasn\u2019t like I was spending a lot of time socially with people in the business or anything like that, so I don\u2019t want the introverts to think, \u201cOh no that\u2019s not me, you got to talk to somebody.\u201d You have to talk to people the same way you have to talk to a car dealer when you go to buy a car; it doesn\u2019t mean that they\u2019re going to be your friend, or you want to, you know, become chums. <em>Laughs<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>So, what I did was I had learned some tricks that I taught myself, which is, I would print out, you know, a really great deal for the same exact watch I wanted from the internet, and put it on the paper where it was cleared, so when I went to the watch seller, I put it down on the glass, and I knew their eyes would glance at it. And if I knew the watch was $500 and I was willing to pay $250, because you can get, like, $50 off of Japanese watches\u2014I would put $250 cash in my wallet. And all the other money would be in my pocket. So I would get him down and he would say, \u201cOkay, you know, I\u2019ll go for $280.\u201d And I\u2019ll say, \u201cThat\u2019s a great deal, I\u2019ll accept that,\u201d you know? \u201cThat sounds good!\u201d And I\u2019d open up my wallet and go, \u201cOh, I\u2019ve only got $250.\u201d You know; he\u2019s looking, and he knows he\u2019s not going to get more than $250. It\u2019s time for him to say \u201cyes\u201d or \u201cno\u201d, right? <em>Laughs<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Good tactic.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> Yeah, so he\u2019d say \u201cyes\u201d, and they did it all the time, right? Because I knew that they made money; they got them cheap enough when they made plenty of money if they got it for 50% off for Japanese and 40% off for Swiss watches. I wish i had known that trick when I started. So all I have to do is write that up in a report, and say, you know, \u201cLittle known trick\u2014you know\u2014exposes the secrets and will allow you to buy any brand new Japanese watch for 50% off\u201d, or you know, \u201cSwiss watch for 40% off\u201d. And then I can build a rapport that generates names and started recommending vendors and selling things to people and stuff like that.<\/p>\n<p>So, the point I\u2019m making is if you\u2019re a problem solver, okay\u2014and I\u2019ll give you a hack for that if you\u2019re not a problem solver\u2014but if you are a problem solver, you can walk in the shoes of prospects; you can order online; you can do these things and find out what would\u2019ve made the offer more compelling for you. What would make you feel safe for buying; what would\u2019ve gotten your attention more? What it is when you go through it? See, because a lot of people don\u2019t get that. When you\u2019re with clients, you just sit there and you ask them why. And they expound on it, and then you say, \u2018why is this?\u2019 You know, it takes them forever to really get around and tell you something that\u2019s juicy, you know? You\u2019re with a client, who\u2019s, you know, telling you about their college experience and all the same stuff you\u2019d hear about the same stuff and their business. And forty hours later, they just drop and mention the fact: \u201cYeah, that was one of&#8230;I was lost at sea for a month.\u201d <em>Laughs<\/em>. Like, really?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Yeah, that\u2019s a story there. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> \u201cWhy didn\u2019t you tell me that before?\u201d Now, I can tie that into how time is precious to you. And if you\u2019re not a problem solver, it\u2019s really easy to solve problems: get together with a group. A group of people will sit there and solve problems. And, this is kind of a\u2014like a preview of one of the things I\u2019m writing about in my book right now, which is, what you do is you first tell people, okay. We\u2019re here to solve this problem; we want to know how can we provide. What is it you\u2019d like to see that these people don\u2019t provide or, that, you know, there\u2019s been a failure or would make things better? Can you let them all back that idea around and then prove it, you know?<\/p>\n<p>Anybody\u2019s in a brainstorming session, or what they now call masterminds, will you know\u2014one person will have an idea, and that will spark the other person up for an idea how to improve the first idea, and it bounces back and forth, and gets kind of honed. Then the second thing\u2014and you wait to do this\u2014the second one is, you say, now how can we provide that solution and do it cheaper? And then they\u2019ll start working on that. If you start off and say how can we provide a solution that\u2019s cheap, they will all sit there and go: \u201cI was going to say this, but I\u2019m not going to say this now because that sounds too expensive.\u201d So you have them first work on the solution, <em>then<\/em> you have them work on, you know, how to get that solution inexpensively. And you\u2019ll come up with something that\u2019s, you know&#8230;that\u2019s unique.<\/p>\n<p>And, I was telling this to a dental student. And he said, \u201cYou know what\u201d\u2014because I said, you know, a lot of the money seems to be inventing these tools like the [Gracey?] which is a type of scraping tool&#8230;.I don\u2019t even like to think about that. <em>But<\/em>, he says, \u201cYeah that\u2019s true, but I\u2019m not, you know, that kind of a thinker.\u201d And I said, \u201cWell you just get together with a group,\u201d and he goes, \u201cYou know what? The guy who\u2019s now 3D printing and patented the process for 3D printing dentures did exactly that. He got a group of dentists together and said, \u201cHow can we do this and that?\u201d They all ping-ponged it around, and he took the idea, patented it, and now he\u2019s making a lot of money. So you can do \u201cGroupthink\u201d.<\/p>\n<p>Well, if you\u2019re not a problem solver and you\u2019re walking in the shoes of your prospects, even if you don\u2019t really communicate with anybody else in the industry, even if you\u2019re doing it online or through mail order or through space ads or whatever, my dad did most of his research\u2014he would read four or five books on a subject that was new to him. And, believe it or not, being an expert is relative: back to the watch thing. My friends all think I\u2019m an expert in watches because I know the brands, and I can change watches, and I can fix bands. <em>Laughs. <\/em>To me, a \u201cwatch expert\u201d is somebody who can, you know, swap out faces and dials and modify a watch; an expert is somebody who can take apart the watch completely, oil it, lubricate it, adjust it, and put it back together. So those guys&#8230;a watch expert is somebody who can manufacture parts to repair a watch. To those guys, an expert is somebody who can actually design and make their own actual movement and watch. And so, there\u2019s always an expert. \u201cExpert\u201d is relative to other things, and most of the time, if you read four or five books, you are an expert at something that people who don\u2019t know very much about it are. You know? You take three of four copywriting courses, you\u2019re an \u201cexpert\u201d in copywriting compared to a business owner who doesn\u2019t know anything about copy.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> Right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond: <\/strong>It\u2019s all relative. And so when you\u2019re doing your research, you can do it in forms\u2014that\u2019s another great place, you know. And if you\u2019re shy, you just do it anonymously but you can you&#8230; It\u2019s a lot easier for an extrovert, because I can go and ask a question in a form and I can ask a question like, I get into an Uber, and I like sociable people so some of my friends are like, \u201cHey, how you doing\u201d for the day. <em>I<\/em> get in there and I go, \u201cOh, what\u2019s the best day&#8230;you\u2019re favorite day to work? When do you get the most money?\u201d You know, and stuff like that. <em>I asked him<\/em> business questions, right? <em>Laughs<\/em>. And they give me some answers and you\u2019re surprised. So, I\u2019ll ask you guys. Do you know\u2014in Uber\u2014do you know what\u2019s one of the most profitable days for them to drive?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong><em>Groan<\/em>. I don\u2019t, no.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond: <\/strong>Take a guess; take a guess. And I was wrong when I made my guess! Don\u2019t be afraid to make a wrong one.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> I mean, I would\u2019ve guessed a weekend like a Saturday or Friday night.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Yeah, maybe a Friday night? Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> Friday night is what I would\u2019ve guessed, right, because you know, even if you have a car, you want to go out and drink and be safe, or whatever. It\u2019s actually <em>Sunday.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong><em> Hmm.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> And I\u2019m not saying this isn\u2019t&#8230;.you know, I\u2019d have to statistically prove it, but I was shocked to hear Sunday was good. But when you heard about it, you\u2019re like, okay. That makes a lot of sense. Because a) people are going to pick up their cars that they\u2019ve left on Saturday night. They have a routine and a route, you know, carpool to get to work and get about their work life that\u2019s figured out. Sunday is the day when they\u2019re like, \u201cYou know, I\u2019m going to go to the beach today.\u201d You know, and so the people without the cars go, you know, hop on it on Sunday. And&#8230;. But Sunday is one of the better days. And when you know that, and I\u2019m not saying I\u2019m going to, but if I was going to do a thing about how to make a little extra money and everything, and say, you know, and the great thing is, you know, Sunday, you get good money as an Uber driver, and you don\u2019t have to fight traffic, the way that you do during the week. You know? And you can think of a whole new thing. So, it <em>is<\/em> easier if you are an extrovert. But as an introvert, you can still do research in form. You can still read the books. You can still do the research in numbers and the industry and all kinds of things and information that you would want and need that you don\u2019t have to. Now, for an extrovert like me, that\u2019s not nearly as fun as getting out and talking to people and finding out info that way. But, for an introvert, you know, it\u2019s where they\u2019re going to shine. So, yes, you can do <em>lots<\/em> and <em>lots<\/em> of good research and still be an introvert without talking to anybody.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Yeah. Interesting! So Bond, I want to jump back to an idea; I kind of had an ah-ha moment when you were talking about how the top of a sales page gets edited, you know, twenty, thirty times, and the bottom of the page gets edited once. And it\u2019s like, I hadn\u2019t really thought that through the way that maybe I should have in the past, so, I\u2019m curious: what is <em>your<\/em> process for nailing the close? Are there tactics, or strategies, tricks? Anything that you do to make sure that that close is just buttoned up and works every time, you know? Are you spending that much time on the bottom of the page as opposed to the top of the page? Let\u2019s talk about that a little more.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> I spend the same amount on every element of the page as I do on every other element of the page, because all the writing, the offer and everything else is done in my head. The only time I actually spend more time honing is usually the bullets. <em>But<\/em>, I\u2019m going to give you a hack, so that anybody can do it, for the closing and stuff like that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Yeah, let\u2019s do it. I like hacks.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> Okay. When it comes to closing, it\u2019s basically how much effort you have to put into the closing depends on the market-awareness, okay? So, for anybody who doesn\u2019t know that it\u2019s, how, you know, there are people who don\u2019t know they have a problem. They don\u2019t know they have bad breath, right? And so you\u2019ll have to explain to them that, you know, \u201cHey look, people back off when you start talking to them\u201d&#8230;<em>laughs<\/em>&#8230;and you have to make them aware, you know. They\u2019re not even aware they have a problem. Then there\u2019s the people who are aware of the problem, but they don\u2019t know what solutions there are. Okay, you can change your diet; you can take these pills; you can use mouthwash; you can brush your teeth more often, and so forth. Then there are the people who are aware of the problem, and they know of different options, but they\u2019re not sure which is the best option, and you explain to them why Listerine\u2019s better than Scope, okay?<\/p>\n<p>Then there is the people who they know of the problems that they have\u2014and then this is a very basic, you know, example, but this is true with all marketing in this century, you know\u2014and they know everything, and they just need to be given a good price. But then they need to be told why they\u2019re getting a price that sounds too good to be true. The second factor is, how unbelievable is the offer, you know? Does it sound like, \u201cOkay, that\u2019s ridiculous\u201d, or, is it not? So, the example I like to use is\u2014and this is actually, I\u2019m writing <em>this<\/em> in a book right now, the same book I mentioned earlier\u2014if, you know, I say, \u201cHey, I\u2019m going to take you across town\u201d, you know a thirty minute drive and it\u2019s only going to cost you $2, I have to explain that deal because that doesn\u2019t make any sense to you, right? \u201cHow in the world could he do that?\u201d If I say, \u201cI\u2019m going to take you across town, it\u2019s only going to be $20 or 15 bucks,\u201d you\u2019re like, \u201cOkay, you know. It\u2019s kind of like an Uber; I can do that.\u201d You\u2019re not really questioning it. So the more unbelievable the offer, the more you have to explain.<\/p>\n<p>So, one of the first things that you\u2019re doing during the planning and conceptualizing of your campaign is what\u2019s the offer, and the explanation of why you\u2019re doing this offer, why you\u2019re putting this together, and why, you know, you\u2019re making it so good. And you have to explain it in a way that makes you go, \u201cOkay, I believe that.\u201d So that\u2019s another part of the close. And then, so the harder it is, and I can\u2019t do all of this, but you know, the harder it is to believe, or the big\u2014and the third-thing is, how much money are you representative of their income; how much are you asking for? So, for example, if I go to a big developer who is always working on buying properties and buildings, tearing down homes and building thirty or forty McMansions, and I say \u201cI want to sell my house to him\u201d, he just needs to know the square footage, the cops in the area, where\u2019s it located; that\u2019s all he needs to know. But if I got to somebody, she\u2019s looking to buy her first home, you know\u2014how much information do they want? They want a <em>binder<\/em> full of information that they might not even read but has the answer to every single question they or their friends or any of their advisers might actually have. Right? Because it represents a greater amount of their income and their experience is less in the market.<\/p>\n<p>So the greater these hurdles are, the more you have to put into the close, okay? The more you have to put in risk reversal, the more you have to put into explaining why you\u2019re making such a good offer, and the more you have to convince them that you\u2019re offer\u2019s genuine, okay? If, the less that\u2019s true you know, you don\u2019t have to do that that much. You know, so, if you say, \u201cI\u2019m offering this for 90 bucks; it used to be a thousand bucks, but I\u2019m doing it for 90 because it\u2019s easier for us to provide digitally and so-forth,\u201d everybody goes nods their heads and says, \u201cThat\u2019s okay.\u201d And so, the stronger it is, the harder it is to make that close. And, if it gets really, really difficult, this is a hack that I learned from my father, which is a fantastic one.<\/p>\n<p>You know, the funny thing is I learned it, but, I learned it in person before I ever learned it and how to write it and use it. And so when I would have conversations with people\u2014and some people, this after my dad had passed away\u2014and they\u2019re like, \u201cMan, you sounds just like your dad\u201d, and it\u2019s&#8230;I\u2019m always thinking, \u201cOf course I do. Don\u2019t you sound like <em>your<\/em> dad?\u201d You know? Everybody does, but I realized it was in the way that I was arguing and the way I was making my cases and stuff like that. But my dad taught me this close, which is a really killer one, which is called <em>What if I\u2019m Right, What if I\u2019m Wrong.<\/em> There\u2019s some great psychology in this, in the way that you do it. So let\u2019s suppose I\u2019m selling you something that\u2019s really expensive. It sounds too good to be true; it\u2019s an income offer, something like that. And I say, \u201cHey, I get what you\u2019re feeling right now, and it sounds like this is too good to be true, but let\u2019s put it to you this way: what if I\u2019m right, and what if I\u2019m wrong? What if I\u2019m actually wrong and I\u2019m full of beans; I actually don\u2019t care about my home, my wife and my children here, and the life I\u2019ve built over twenty years? I\u2019m actually going to take your $2000 and I\u2019m going to run off to Costa Rica and I\u2019m going to blow it on drugs and scuba diving trips, you know? You\u2019ll never see me again. Under that terrible, worse case scenario, you\u2019ll probably have to get back to your credit card company and do a chargeback and wait sixty days to get your money back.<\/p>\n<p>But what if I\u2019m right? What if what I provide to you is a new way to make money that gives you the freedom and the kind of money to really do what you want and follow your passion in life, and the freedom to follow your passion as well? And it provides you all the XYZ benefits that you want, right?\u201d So that\u2019s a really strong close, and there\u2019s a lot of things you can add to that. Just say, you know, \u201cAnd in addition to that, I\u2019m giving you refund time in case you have any doubts whatsoever that come up even after you\u2019ve ordered,\u201d and so forth, \u201cso you can check it out, test it, and make sure that everything is as legitimate as I say it is.\u201d And that\u2019s a very strong, powerful close to get people over the edge. This is also in the book that I\u2019m writing. For those four readers\u2014you remember I was talking about all those readers?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Mm-hm.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Yep.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> Okay. Well, what I like to do is to make\u2014you know, I want to make sure all of them read. For the people who are skimming, you\u2019re kicked over the edge. And, I\u2019m not a big fan of templates, but I do make sure everything I do follows the formula or A.I.D.A, okay: <em>Attention, Interest, Desire, <\/em>and <em>Action<\/em>. If you watch the <em>Glengarry Glen Ross <\/em>movie, he got the \u201cD\u201d wrong. It\u2019s not <em>Decision<\/em>. <em>Attention, Interest, Desire, <\/em>and <em>Action, <\/em>and that\u2019s the formula. They can blend into each other, but they need to go kind of in that order. And, so, in the action part, you\u2019re always compelling them to act. This is part of the closing as well. Closings, you have to give them\u2014if people think that they can wait to make a decision, they will wait, and then they will forget, life will get in the way, and they won\u2019t make the decisions, so everybody\u2019s putting in a sense of urgency. And there\u2019s no reason to put in a false sense of urgency. You can create real senses of urgency.<\/p>\n<p>So, you know, what you can do is you can offer a bonus report that\u2019s good for a limited time, and then just switch up and offer a different bonus. Right? And then later bring back the original bonus and say, \u201cHey, you know this bonus was really popular. We offered it a year ago and it\u2019s been off the market. We haven\u2019t offered it for a year, so now we\u2019re bringing it back for a limited time.\u201d Right? So everybody thinks that you guys are will do these like, you know&#8230; We have reputation and everybody knows when we say we\u2019re going to do something, we do it. When we say we\u2019re going to pull something, we do it. You know? Everybody says this link will be dead in six hours, and the link\u2019s there for six months. But, you have to do a false sense of urgency. You can create real sense of urgency is getting people to do it, and you should. You really need to do that, because in sales, delay is death. And that\u2019s a motto that you really need to stand by. It\u2019s one of the mistakes I see most marketers are making these days, because again, they\u2019re working on, \u201cI got to great offer; I got to great headline; I\u2019m going to work with somebody who\u2019s fantastic,\u201d but it\u2019s that the one component i see missing all the time is not really doing a really good compelling sense of urgency that\u2019s believable. But the top marketers, I do seeing them. And here\u2019s how you do it: Let\u2019s suppose you have that sense of urgency, and I don\u2019t know what it is&#8230; Lets suppose you\u2019re throwing a meeting for copywriters in New York, right? And&#8230;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>But who would be crazy enough to do that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>Right!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> Well I don\u2019t know, it sounds&#8230;.and let\u2019s supposed you\u2019ve got some really great people like Big Jason Henderson, and some unknown super-fantastic guys like Sam Markowitz and things like that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong><em>Laughs<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> But if you&#8230; Let\u2019s suppose you round up some experts like that and you\u2019re going to have them, right? You\u2019re writing you copy, and you\u2019re down at the end, and you\u2019re like, how do I end this thing, you know, my P.S.? You say, remember you know, with these one hundred experts have changed a lot of lives, and can teach you, put you on the tracks.<\/p>\n<p>But&#8230;.actually, I\u2019m sorry, let me give you the formula first. Let me give you the formula first. You say remember, then you do comma, and you repeat the benefit and then the sense of urgency. So you say, \u201cRemember, at our even, there\u2019s going to be thirty experts who have changed the lives of hundreds of entrepreneurs, and helped them get the lives that they\u2019ve been after or building and writ fantastic copy and turn businesses around. <em>But<\/em>, if you\u2019re interested, there\u2019s only ten seats left.\u201d There\u2019s your sense of urgency, right? Okay. Well if you got that OCD reader who starts from the beginning and reads to the end? That kicks them over the edge, right? That person who\u2019s skimming, that\u2019s a compelling part of it. For the person making the decision based on the headline and the bullets and the P.S. and the offer; for the person who\u2019s skimming it and trying to decide whether or not they need to read this, it tells them that, \u201cHey, this sounds interesting to me, but I better read it now because I have to make a decision.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond: <\/strong>Do you get that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> So, that\u2019s why that P.S. hack is good for all four readers.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>Yeah, so&#8230;<em>sigh<\/em>. I feel like I took off my interview hat. I\u2019m just like soaking this all up! I want to be on your list when your book comes out so I can read your book. Are you mentoring right now, or providing copy critiques? I\u2019m just listening to all this, and I struggle with my close. I know I\u2019m struggling with it right now, so selfishly I\u2019m asking for my own work, but&#8230;what do you offer right now?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond: <\/strong>I do offer copy critiques. My brother and I both do it. The mentorship program that we\u2019re starting to put together is actually a pretty high-end certification program where what I\u2019m going to do is teach everybody research, walk them through, you know, developing the unique hook, offer, and solution from the research; doing the first draft and how to get them going; and then whether they\u2019ve got writer\u2019s block or not; and then putting in the editing process. But we do that on a one-on-one basis, and you know, you just contact at us at bond- or kevin@thegaryhalbertletter.com, and we do offer that.<\/p>\n<p>But for the most part, what I\u2019m trying to do now is&#8230; My main focus has been the books. And I know Rob wanted to ask me about that. What I did was&#8230;you remember how I explained how I divide the work into thirds: research, you know; first draft; and developing the unique hook, offer, and solution, and the editing? Well I decided to sit down and write all of that. And, the first one done was the editing book. And so that\u2019s already out there. And, that one was really exciting for me and the reason was, is because nobody\u2019s ever done that. David Ogilvy says, \u201cI\u2019m not a great writer; I\u2019m a great researcher, and I\u2019m a great editor.\u201d Right? Everybody else will say, you know, \u201cEdit, edit, edit, edit.\u201d Has anybody ever told you how to edit?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> I\u2019m an <em>awful<\/em> editor!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong><em> Laughs. <\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>That does really happen.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond: <\/strong>Yeah; when I did that, I was like, you know, holy smokes. Nobody\u2019s ever taught this, and everybody\u2019s saying, \u201cEdit, edit, edit\u201d, and I was like, \u201cOh!\u201d You know, I mean, I said you know, \u201cThis is a first.\u201d It really motivated me to get it done quick so that you know, because I get the feather in my cap to be the first person to be the first person to ever write a book on editing copy. <em>Laughs<\/em>. You know, because everybody says there\u2019s nothing new in copy. I\u2019m like, \u201cWell, here\u2019s something new!\u201d But here\u2019s a good thing about that editing book, and I\u2019m not here to push that because I\u2019m fine without the sales from the book, but what I like about the book the most is some of it is stuff that I learned, not <em>directly<\/em> from my father. I learned it from recognizing patterns in his work. And, the one skill that I have that personality &amp; aptitude tests say is \u201cpattern recognition\u201d. I\u2019m good at recognizing patterns. So I would recognize the pattern I would see in the way that my dad would put things, and I would see that in other pieces of copy. And I was intro\u2019d into what was effective copy, and what didn\u2019t work, you know? I knew those things. You know. People will pass out swipes at my dad said \u201cI don\u2019t know whether or not it worked or not.\u201d And they\u2019re like, \u201cOh yeah! <em>Laughs<\/em>. You know, this is great copy.\u201d It\u2019s like, \u201cYeah it looked like great copy; it didn\u2019t really work that well.\u201d But, in any case, so I started recognizing patterns, so there are actually lessons in there that are Gary Halbert lessons that nobody learned before; not even his prot\u00e9g\u00e9s, because he never verbalized them. He was too busy focusing on other issues and stuff like that. Not my dad\u2019s editing formula had five things to looks for\u2014or I think it was fine. It was break up your paragraphs; break up your sentences; it was look for the instances where you used the word \u201cthat\u201d that you don\u2019t need them. Called the \u201csuperfluous \u2018that\u2019 hunt\u201d. <em>Laughs<\/em>. Like, why are you using a word like \u201csuperfluous\u201d? <em>Laughs<\/em>. My dad had an incredible vocabulary; it\u2019s just nobody would know it reading or talking to him. And, you know, he would insert subheads and stuff like that, but what happened was, I was like, \u201cOkay. Here\u2019s what I want to do and I want to look out for this, and this is what I do, and this is what I do.\u201d Because my dad and I came up with two different worlds. He came up with the world where people type things out, and they had <em>just<\/em> started to invent the electric typewriter. And, there was really not that much in the way of corrections, so my dad\u2014his process, he would do the research; he\u2019d walk around, he\u2019d get that *snap* ah-ha idea. And he would always snap his fingers too, and go, *snap* \u201cAh-ha! Got it!\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> <em>Laughs<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> And then he would write down the big idea, and then he would stat perfecting the pitch in his head with an imaginary prospect. And then when he was ready, he would sit down and he would start writing and he would write from beginning to end, and it was as close to the finished product as I\u2019ve ever seen any decent copywriter do. But that was because he grew up in those times. And then he would go through edits three or four times, but they were expensive to have done. And he did <em>more<\/em> editing. The more\u2014the easier it was for his assistant, who started working with a word processor. I grew up with the computer, so I just pound out that first draft, and I spend my time reading and editing, polishing it and then it ends up sounding more like Gary Halbert\u2019s stuff, right? It\u2019s sounding like a Halbert because again, you know, you have the same kind of tone, intonation, arguing, persuasion techniques that you grew up with your parents, right?<\/p>\n<p>I just happen to grow up with Gary Halbert. But it was the editing process that smooths my stuff over. You know, and I knew it was there when John Carlton\u2019s like, you know, was reading something that was with my commentary, and he goes, \u201cI couldn\u2019t tell the difference between yours and your father\u2019s writing.\u201d <em>Chuckles<\/em>. I was like, oh, that\u2019s a good pat on the back, right? But, the point is, the editing process was something that I turned around and put more time into it. So, I would do things&#8230;. I\u2019ll give you an example from the book itself that most people don\u2019t do. In copywriting, there\u2019s a famous thing that everybody called the ITU Formula where they say that you should use \u201cyou\u201d and \u201cyour\u201d four to eight times more than you use the words \u201cI\u201d and \u201cme\u201d, because it\u2019s always about the prospect. So they say, you know, I want you to always use \u201cyou\u201d and&#8230; that\u2019s not what the great copywriters do.<\/p>\n<p>The great copywriters\u2014and they, some of them do it by accident and they don\u2019t realize that this is the difference between their good and their bad ads\u2014the great copywriters, they for the most part take on all the negative in the \u201cI\u201d form, and then they put off a positive in the \u201cyou\u201d form. So what they do is they start off and they say, \u201cI was sleeping in my car,\u201d or, \u201cI was just waiting and wondering how long I could keep the doors open before the money runs out,\u201d and \u201cI couldn\u2019t sleep at night, and I was sweating, and you know, so nervous and wondering if i was going to have to go back to work, or if I was going to ruin my credit, what my family was going to think, and so forth. And that\u2019s when I discovered the secret that will allow you to get so much business, that you\u2019ll have to turn it way. And you\u2019ll never have to worry about going back to work at the nine to five job ever again.\u201d And the reason you do that that way is because if I say, you know, \u201cI know how it is\u2014you\u2019re struggling, you\u2019re sleeping in your car\u201d, that person might be like, \u201c&#8230;I\u2019m not sleeping in my car.\u201d <em>Laughs. <\/em><\/p>\n<p>You know. But, so if you take on all that negative&#8230;and the way you want to do it in copywriting is, \u201cmy situation is worse than yours is right now, you know, and I\u2019m going to show you how to end up into a spot that\u2019s better than the one you were even hoping to end up in.\u201d <em>That\u2019s<\/em> the real formula, right? You know, so that\u2019s why <em>I<\/em> was sleeping in my car, and sometimes it\u2019s resonates; and other times, it\u2019s like, \u201cWow, your\u2019s is even worse than <em>my<\/em> situation.\u201d Then \u201cI discover the trick that, you know, you\u2019ll have to open up new locations; you\u2019ll be looking for investors to see if you can do it, and you know, and you\u2019re just going to have to admit that it\u2019s time to start sending business to your competitors because you just can\u2019t handle it all.\u201d They\u2019re like, \u201cOh that\u2019s a situation I\u2019d love to be in\u201d, you know? So, it starts off with \u201cI\u2019m in a situation far worse than you\u2019ll ever be in; and you\u2019ll be in a situation better than you hoped to dream.\u201d They take on all the negative with the \u201cI\u201d, and when they switched the positive, that\u2019s when it becomes \u201cyou\u201d and \u201cyours\u201d.<\/p>\n<p>So I don\u2019t do the, you know, formula of, you know, this is how many times I said \u201cI\u201d and \u201cme\u201d; this is how many times you say \u201cyou\u201d and \u201cyours\u201d. And another&#8230;well I don\u2019t want to on too long. You want another quick tip on that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Yeah, one quick tip, and then I have one last question before we wrap.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> Sure. Well what you do it, when you do the \u201cI\u201d, there\u2019s sometimes you have to do a brag. You have to say, \u201cI\u2019m really good at this.\u201d Okay? So what you do right before that is you explain how human you are. So, you say look, you know, \u201cThere\u2019s a lot of things about my life that are far from perfect. I don\u2019t even know how to set my watch; I have to get my kids to put the contacts in my phone.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> <em>Laughs<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>Bond: \u201cBut the one thing I am really good at is teaching people how to write copy, because I learned from the guy who taught the best of the best, and I heard the first lessons he gave to anybody, and I heard them; I saw them refined over time, and learned the most effective ways to convey those lessons in those principles to people who want to learn how to write copy. And so, the one thing I am very good at is teaching people how to write copy.\u201d Okay? So, the point is, people go, you know, if you sit there and go, \u201cOh I\u2019m great! I\u2019m good-looking, I\u2019m wealthy, I\u2019ve got my stuff together, I haven\u2019t made a mistake in ten years,\u201d people just <em>hate you<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong><em>Laughs<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> Right? I mean I hate people like that; you know, you do too! But, if you hear put into that words, because my dad would do this\u2014I would hear him say, \u201cLook, I can\u2019t do this and this and that, but I\u2019m really good with this,\u201d and I recognized that pattern because you turned around and you go, \u201cWow, you know what; and if you teach how to write copy, I\u2019ll know how to write copy <em>and<\/em> I can program my phone, so I\u2019m better than you!\u201d <em>Laughs<\/em>. That\u2019s what\u2019s subconsciously going on in their heads. So when you do the \u201cyou\u201d and the \u201cyour\u201d thing, remember that if you\u2019re going to have to talk about your accolades and how great you are, don\u2019t forget to do it with that humility.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> That\u2019s&#8230;.oh my goodness. I\u2019m just thinking of a sales pitch I\u2019m working on write now. I\u2019m like, I have to redo everything based off of everything that you shared in this conversation today. So, I want to ask you one last question that I can\u2019t quite let go of. You mentioned earlier in the conversation that your father had a rocky relationship with money. I\u2019m curious, like&#8230;what is <em>your<\/em> relationship with money? Did you carry that and take that from him, or have you evolved and changed your relationship with money?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> Oh, I\u2019m completely different. My father and I&#8230;actually, a lot of people don\u2019t know this, but, my dad made and took home the most money in his entire career working on a project that we both pioneered, invented, and ran together. And the reason he was able to do that is <em>I<\/em> was in charge of the money and wouldn\u2019t let him screw it up. <em>Laughs<\/em>. It was&#8230;and that\u2019s really the reason. I mean, he has lots of lots of winners, but this was you know, I recognized what he was doing. But my parents were complete opposites. My mom, you could, you know, work the same job as a surgical nurse for like thirty years. You could set your watch by when she was coming home. My dad was this radical wild card. And I hated the ups and downs. And the one thing\u2014and, this is impossible to most people to believe until you experience it, so I don\u2019t expect anybody to believe this. Money really doesn\u2019t buy happiness, but you don\u2019t know that until you have money and you\u2019re not happy. Okay? And being&#8230;but I\u2019m not, you know, <em>being broke sucks too!<\/em> You know. <em>Laughs<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>Right!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond: <\/strong>Being broke will cause you unhappiness. And so, growing up, my brothers and I were the wealthiest kids in school, and then you know&#8230;never really the dirt-poorest kids in school but had no money; and then wealthy again, and then had no money; and wealthy again. I saw my dad who was going to prison and, you know, scrounging through the cushions and the couch looking for change to put gas in the car, to basically throwing away money and spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on boats and totally useless stuff. And again, it took me a long time to realize that my dad&#8230;he really needed that feeling of needing to make it, so he would blow his money, and then get into a position where he needed to then have a breakthrough, because he didn\u2019t work that hard when he was making a ton of money.<\/p>\n<p>So, one of the things I hated, and I think all kids do this with their parents, is they kind of rebel. Kind of like skips a generation, and I don\u2019t know if it\u2019s because men get a lot of their attitudes from their mothers, who get it from their fathers, so it\u2019s like skipping a generation, or if it\u2019s just that you\u2019re rebelling because your parents were wild so you\u2019re straight-laced, or your parents are straight-laced so you become wild, or whatever. But my parents were both polar opposites, so I kind of like went right in the between, and I\u2019ve seen times when we had great times and terrible times, when my parents had plenty of money. I\u2019ve seen great times and terrible times, when my parents had very little money! <em>Laughs<\/em>. So, what it is for me, is, I realized very, very early on in life that it\u2019s not he who dies with the most toys wins. It\u2019s not he who\u2019s&#8230;you know&#8230;.take any measure that anybody does. In my opinion, the person who wins at the game of life is the person who, from birth to death, has spent the majority of that time <em>happy<\/em>. Period. And, that means that you have to prepare for the future, you know. Or else, you\u2019re going to have a terrible future. If you\u2019re scrambling to make rent at the end of the month, then the end of the month is going to suck, right?<\/p>\n<p>You have to still prepare for the future, but you can\u2019t swell on the past. You have to live in the now, and what makes you happy is how you spend your day. It really is. It\u2019s what you\u2019re doing on a day-to-day basis, because that\u2019s really what you life is. And so, I kind of re-prioritized it. One of the things I learned early was everybody, you know who\u2019s older than me, said, \u201cThis is what it\u2019s going to be like\u201d, or, \u201cThis is what\u2019s important,\u201d I starting paying&#8230;they, you know, as soon as I realized they were right, <em>once<\/em>, I was like, \u201cI\u2019m going to start paying attention to that advice.\u201d So when I had kids, they\u2019re like, \u201cTake your time and enjoy it.\u201d <em>And I did. <\/em>I said, you know what? Instead of going and traveling for work all the time and worrying about this and that, I\u2019m going to make enough money to live comfortably, not work hard <em>at all<\/em>\u2014I\u2019m the biggest underachiever you\u2019ll <em>ever<\/em> meet&#8230;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> <em>Laughs<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> &#8230;And I\u2019m proud of that too! <em>Laughs. <\/em>And so, I\u2019m always at home you know, when my kids get home from school I spend lots of time with them; I take them and explore and do all kinds of different things, and they were babysat outside my family, like outside of the grandmother\u2019s, like <em>twice<\/em>, you know? Because everybody said, you know, enjoy them while they last. And I\u2019m enjoying my children while they last! Now my son\u2019s hitting the teenage years, so I\u2019m not starting to be willing to travel for business a little further.<\/p>\n<p>Before, I had a rule, which was I\u2019m never going more than an hour away from home by flight or by car for business. So, people were like, you know, \u201cHey, do you want to come to GKIC Summit, or you want to do&#8230;\u201d I remember they invited me to Titans! I was one of the few people they\u2019re like \u201cHey, you know, you guys are legacy and everything so, you know, we\u2019ll give you tickets and everything like that, and I\u2019m like, \u201cI\u2019m sorry. Have fun getting on the plane in New York and then taking the train to Connecticut! <em>Laughs<\/em>. I was like&#8230; but you know, that\u2019s because, you\u2019re my family. But now that that\u2019s changing, I know that in this next phase of my life, that one of my main goals is to travel more, you know?<\/p>\n<p>And, so, back to your question about relationship with money. So, what I do is, I\u2019ve always made more money than I need for what I do. But I don\u2019t turn around and say, that\u2019s it\u2014my goal is to make a million, or two million, or three million or anything like that. My goal is to do the things that I really want to do. The things that I\u2019m proud of; the things that I enjoy. So when I wrote that book on editing\u2014and I\u2019m, you know, I\u2019m writing all three of the books, actually, I\u2019m working on book number two right now\u2014but when I wrote that, it wasn\u2019t because I needed the money. It wasn\u2019t because I needed the win. It was because I wanted to be the first person to write a book on editing. I wanted to provide something of value; it\u2019s more fun, it\u2019s interesting. So I spend my life doing the things I want to do. Right now\u2014and, this changes all the time for me\u2014right now, I\u2019m doing a whole lot of hiking and mountain biking in the Santa Monica mountains and I\u2019m spending a lot of time at the beach because we\u2019re having these incredible weather spells. And, I\u2019ll actually go out there and sit and work and edit. You know, everybody on our business says, \u201cYou can work from anywhere in the world!\u201d But the truth is, if you get a lot of clients, or you\u2019re doing webinars, and you\u2019re doing things like that, you got to be up during American working hours.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> You know, so all my friends are like, \u201cI can work from anywhere. I\u2019m in Malaysia!\u201d Like, \u201cYeah? What time are you getting up to do that webinar?\u201d \u201c&#8230;.Three AM.\u201d <em>Laughs<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong><em> Laughs.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Not worth it, for sure.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> But I literally can work on the plane. <em>Laughs<\/em>; you know, because my brother and I, we create our own offers, you know; we create our own products and services and we can do it via remote control, or you know from remote locations and stuff like that. That\u2019s the great thing about direct marketing, is, you can do it that way. Now copywriters who are guns-for-hire, you still have the problem of having to work during American hours. If you got time and the resources and you\u2019re not always up against the gun when you\u2019re sending out direct mail and ad campaigns and everything, you can work via email. Send out your emails in the middle of the night. Then people get back to you by the time you wake up, <em>laughs<\/em>, and stuff like that. It does offer a lot of freedom. And, growing up, you know I looked at my mom my dad, and I\u2019m like, \u201cI could be a lot like them, in good and bad ways.\u201d So I decided I wanted to be like my dad in the ways that I admired; my mom, in the ways that I admired. And one of the things that I really admired about my dad? Everybody\u2019s dad was off going to work. My dad showed me, you know, \u201cNo, I like to go movies on a Tuesday afternoon, you know?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong><em> Laughs.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> And, I do too! And, you know I live in Los Angeles. One of the worst things about living in Los Angeles is traffic. I never get suck in it because I just don\u2019t have commute in during rush hour.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond: <\/strong>You know? I\u2019ll go out to the beach, sit down and pop up a chair, and watch the dolphins swim up the coast, and I\u2019ll sit there and edit my book because I edit on paper\u2014which, by the way, everybody should do. Don\u2019t edit on the computer; print out your stuff on paper and edit that way. And I do that, and you know, and I work, and then I\u2019ll come home, and I\u2019ll actually hand it to an assistant, or my daughter, who I\u2019m training to be an editor right now, and say, \u201cMake these edits\u201d, you know and she\u2019ll do it. I\u2019ll print out the fresh copy and I\u2019ll go sit at the beach and do more. But if I get an idea, I just pull out my laptop and pound it out and, you know, add another section to it and stuff.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>You\u2019ve convinced me. I\u2019m ready to move to Southern California, so I can sit on the beach.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Right!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> <em>Laughs<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Sign me up for all of it. I want all of it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> Well, again, it\u2019s a lifestyle thing for me, and that\u2019s just what I want, you know, I mean and every time something changes, if I want something else, it\u2019s like I\u2019m just like my dad: Oh, I want this! Okay, how much is this? Okay. Then I\u2019ll go back to work and make more money and get what I want!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Yeah, great approach. This has been a fantastic conversation. We have gone way over time, but, I think there\u2019s been so much value here that hopefully our listeners will forgive us. I have a feeling they\u2019re going to appreciate what you shared.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Oh, they\u2019re going to be excited. For real.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> If people want to learn more about you, find your books, connect with you in person&#8230;where would the best place to go be?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> Okay, my website is bondhalbert.com. And of course, we own thegaryhalberletter.com. Don\u2019t forget the \u201cthe.\u201d And I\u2019m on Facebook as well. We do run a copy group as well like you do, but I really like you\u2019re copy group, by the way. <em>Laughs<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>Thank you!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Oh! Thank you!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> Most of the time you join a copy group and then you get so many notifications you turn off the notifications. <em>Laughs<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> <em>Laughs<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond: <\/strong>&#8230;I don\u2019t turn off the notifications for your group.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Well that\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> But anyway, you can also connect and reach out through me on Facebook you know, as well. And we\u2019re readily available. People are usually stunned how quickly\u2014and that\u2019s something we also picked up from our father\u2014a lot of people didn\u2019t know but for a long time the number on my father\u2019s newsletter was actually his home phone number! <em>Laughs<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>Oh wow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> Yeah, they didn\u2019t realize, you know&#8230;everybody\u2019s like, \u201cWell you know, I\u2019ll never get through to him.\u201d So, he didn\u2019t have to worry about it being too much of a pain! But he was really always made very approachable, so Kevin and I have always decided that we\u2019re going to be very approachable too. And so, you know, we are. And, a lot of people, they\u2019re like, \u201cWhy?\u201d Didn\u2019t think it\u2019d be so quick or so easy to get you to, you know, to give me few minutes of your time. Now, that doesn\u2019t mean I\u2019m available like, I\u2019m going to you know, give everybody who calls an hour of my time, I couldn\u2019t afford to do that. But we\u2019re available, so you know, you can hit us up, you know, and again, I gave my email address out earlier, which is bond@thegaryhalbertletter.com.<\/p>\n<p>We have another site called Halbertising.com. And the way that originally was, is we didn\u2019t want anybody to think that we were going to step on our dad\u2019s legacy in any way. So whenever we created something that\u2019s just mine, I\u2019ll put it on bondhalbert.com or announce it there. If it\u2019s all solely, 100% Gary Halbert-related, it goes to thegaryhalbertletter.com. And then when Kevin and I did stuff that was Halbert-adjacent or, you know, that was marketing, it\u2019s about marketing but it\u2019s Kevin and I, and a little bit of stuff from our father, because you really can\u2019t separate, you know, us from him&#8230;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> &#8230;we put it on Halbertising. And you know, so if we were doing breakdowns of his ads, we put it Halbertising instead.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>Okay. So, yeah. Three great resources. <em>The Gary Halbert Letters<\/em>, one of the resources that we share with everybody saying, you know, all of the newsletter that are there are just a great free resource that you guys have provided, we\u2019d like to share that with our group but hopefully, you know, people can connect with you. We would love to have you come back for another episode, just to talk to about all the stuff we didn\u2019t even get to. If you\u2019re open to that someday Bond, you know, long before another 83 episodes have passed, hopefully. But we really appreciate your time and everything that you\u2019ve shared. It\u2019s been fantastic.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> Sure!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Yeah. This has been <em>amazing<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bond:<\/strong> Thank you very much for having me!<\/p>\n<p>You\u2019ve been listening to <em>The Copywriter Club Podcast<\/em> with Kira Hug and Rob Marsh. Music for the show is a clip from Gravity by Whitest Boy Alive, available in iTunes. If you like what you\u2019ve heard, you can help us spread the word by subscribing in iTunes, and by leaving a review. For show notes, a full transcript, and links to our free Facebook community, visit thecopywriterclub.com. We\u2019ll see you next episode.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>In the direct response world everyone knows the name, Gary Halbert. He\u2019s often called the best copywriter who ever lived. And if we could, we\u2019d ask Gary to be on [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_coblocks_attr":"","_coblocks_dimensions":"","_coblocks_responsive_height":"","_coblocks_accordion_ie_support":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[2],"tags":[108,3],"class_list":["post-1403","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-podcast","tag-bond-halbert","tag-podcast"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v26.7 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>TCC Podcast #83: Copywriting Secrets Learned from a Legend with Bond Halbert - The Copywriter Club<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Copywriter Bond Halbert on the story behind the Boron Letters, the most important lessons he learned from his famous dad (Gary Halbert) why copywriters are bad at closes (and how to fix that), why expertise is relative, the formula he leans on, and much more. 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