{"id":1484,"date":"2018-05-01T16:13:18","date_gmt":"2018-05-01T09:13:18","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/?p=1484"},"modified":"2018-10-20T08:13:37","modified_gmt":"2018-10-20T01:13:37","slug":"thoughts-about-scarcity-rob-marsh-and-kira-hug","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/thoughts-about-scarcity-rob-marsh-and-kira-hug\/","title":{"rendered":"TCC Podcast #90: Thoughts about scarcity with Rob Marsh and Kira Hug"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Wow, ninety episodes. That was fast, right? For the 90th episode of\u00a0<em>The Copywriter Club Podcast<\/em>, Kira and Rob talk about some of the challenges of running a growing Facebook group and managing competing cultures, expectations, and conversations that cross the line. Some of the topics we covered in this rare guest-less episode include:<\/p>\n<p>\u2022 \u00a0what Rob has been doing with his business for the last two months<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0a little bit about Kira\u2019s experiment with a \u201cmini micro agency\u201d<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0the program experiment that \u201cfailed\u201d<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0why we created the Facebook group and why we sometimes let things go farther than some people feel appropriate<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0balancing trust and intent with censorship<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0the place for scarcity in copywriting<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0how scarcity impacts us as copywriters<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0what Kira does when she finds herself in a scarcity mindset<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0how to create scarcity the right way<\/p>\n<p>Plus we talked a bit about what\u2019s coming up next for us and the club. We\u2019ve got some great new (and returning) guests joining us in the next few weeks that we\u2019re very excited about. To hear it all, visit iTunes, Stitcher or click\u00a0the play button below. And as always you can scroll down for a full transcript.<\/p>\n<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_4654\"><!--[if lt IE 9]><script>document.createElement('audio');<\/script><![endif]-->\n<audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-1484-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC090RMKH.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC090RMKH.mp3\">https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC090RMKH.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC090RMKH.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/?powerpress_pinw=1484-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC090RMKH.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"TCC090RMKH.mp3\">Download<\/a><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/thecopywriterclub.com\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p>\n<h3>The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:<\/h3>\n<p><em><a href=\"http:\/\/www.thecopywriteraccelerator.com\">The Copywriter Accelerator<\/a><\/em><br \/>\n<em><a href=\"http:\/\/www.copywriterthinktank.com\">The Copywriter Think Tank<\/a><\/em><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.npr.org\/2018\/04\/02\/598119170\/the-scarcity-trap-why-we-keep-digging-when-were-stuck-in-a-hole\">The Hidden Brain Scarcity Episode<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/kirahug.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Kira\u2019s website<\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/kaleighmoore.us11.list-manage.com\/subscribe?u=7bdb50a2eb0d5b0a501cd1bf4&amp;id=9bf46b3e1d\"><br \/>\n<\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/www.brandstoryonline.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Rob\u2019s website<\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/kaleighmoore.us11.list-manage.com\/subscribe?u=7bdb50a2eb0d5b0a501cd1bf4&amp;id=9bf46b3e1d\"><br \/>\n<\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/groups\/thecopywriterclub\/\">The Copywriter Club Facebook Group<\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\"><br \/>\n<\/a>Intro:\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/soundcloud.com\/fauves\/content-for-now\">Content (for now)<\/a><br \/>\nOutro:\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/album\/gravity\/id304219081?i=304219099\">Gravity<\/a>\n<h3>Full Transcript:<\/h3>\n<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright wp-image-1485 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/05\/RobKira90Small.png\" alt=\"Copywriters Rob Marsh and Kira Hug\" width=\"300\" height=\"300\" srcset=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/05\/RobKira90Small.png 300w, https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/05\/RobKira90Small-150x150.png 150w, https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/05\/RobKira90Small-50x50.png 50w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/>\n<p><strong>Kira:\u00a0<\/strong>What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That\u2019s what Rob and I do every week at <em>The Copywriter Club Podcast<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>You\u2019re invited to join the club for episode 90, as Kira and I talk about what\u2019s been going on in the Copywriter Club lately, and in our own businesses; how we hope to monitor Facebook discussions moving forward; and why scarcity is such a powerful motivator for your clients, and something you need to watch out for in your own business.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:\u00a0<\/strong>Hey, Kira.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>Hey Rob. How\u2019s it going?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:\u00a0<\/strong>It is going awesome. Before we started recording, we were just talking about how we\u2019re both so happy that Spring is here, and spending some time outside. You were going for a run; I\u2019m hoping to get out on my bike and&#8230;yeah, things are going good.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah, definitely. Getting outside has helped with the warm weather; I feel like I haven\u2019t done much of that over the last two months, so yeah. This was a first job in a long time. Very slow; very slow pace!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah, I totally get that. So, my bike has been sitting in my garage for way too long, because the handlebar tape broke on my bike, and I fixed it with some packing tape, and that just bugged the heck out of me. So I had this tape sitting, ready to make a repair, and I finally got it done on Saturday, and got out for a ride, and oh my gosh. You know, like ten minutes in, I\u2019m like, why haven\u2019t I been doing this everyday? You know, I miss being on my bike. So, yeah; thank you Spring for getting here, and getting my out of my desk chair, and out into the world.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>Yeah. Well I feel like you and I have been hibernating a bit the past&#8230;.year, maybe?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:\u00a0<\/strong><em>Laugh<\/em>. Yeah, a little bit.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:\u00a0<\/strong>And just chugging along on the copywriter club, and putting it together. So what\u2019s been happening in your business? Because we haven\u2019t really talked about your business since episode 80 which was about two months ago, right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>Yeah. So I think we talked right after the live even that we did.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:\u00a0<\/strong><em>Right<\/em>. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:\u00a0<\/strong>And you know, after the live event, I took on a lot of work, and so for the last two months, have been working really hard on balancing a couple of really large projects, along with what we were doing in <em>The Copywriter Club<\/em>, and i have to admit, for the last two months, while the work has been steady and the income has been good, it has been, you know\u2014I\u2019ve literally been working 60, 70-hour weeks, and not spending nearly enough time with my family or on myself. And it definitely wears you down. I think you\u2019ve been doing something similar.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:\u00a0<\/strong>And we did the same thing, I guess. I didn\u2019t realize that, but after the event, I feel like January and February were so focused on the event in New York, that I missed the client work, or I felt&#8230;I like to get out there; I like to speak to client; i like to book work; I like to make money; I like to sell. SO I think I just got overly zealous and just jumped into client work, and took on a \u00a0lot as well. We both did that, and so I definitely booked the biggest two months I\u2019ve ever booked with more projects than really I could handle and decided to look at it like I\u2019m running a micro-agency, and to bring on subcontractors as needed, and really just to treat it like, you know, I\u2019m an agency; I need to operate differently than I have in the past, and this will be an experiment like we always say.<\/p>\n<p>So, that\u2019s been my March <em>and\u00a0<\/em>April, and while I feel like I have taken away a lot from that and it has helped me grow\u2014which you kind of always have to say right?&#8211;it was painful, it was very painful. I don\u2019t know why I put myself through these torturous events just to, like, grow personally. But yeah; I think the client work paired with our launch of our accelerator program which we launched twice a year, and actually we\u2019re going to start launching it just once a year in September, and then the launch of our <em>Think Tank\u00a0<\/em>Mastermind group, and then we even launched a new program\u2014<em>the Accelerator Plus<\/em>\u2014for our former Accelerator members. Which, you know, well we can talk more about that in a minute. <em>Laughs<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>Yeah. Well, but yeah I think you\u2019re right. We seemed to have done a lot of similar things. You sort of took on a lot of subcontractors; I didn\u2019t do any subcontracting, or did very little subcontracting, but also took on a partnership project with an agency that, you know, was worth far more than the typical project that I do, and involves several videos and animations and, just a beyond scope of what I\u2019ve done as a freelancer. You know, I used to do that kind of stuff a lot in the agency world before I did my own business, but it\u2019s good to push yourself sometimes, but then you have to let the string sort of set back, and relax, and so hopefully this month, maybe we can do a little bit of that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:\u00a0<\/strong>No, I don\u2019t think so. I don\u2019t think that\u2019s happened. Yeah, I think it\u2019s just a lesson I need to learn, and I, for some reason, have a hard time learning that lesson, but I do think that I am slowly starting to get it. I just think I need to\u2014I don\u2019t know. I need to feel the <em>pain. I <\/em>really need to feel it in order to change, and to learn these lessons, like, hey, I should take on less clients while we\u2019re building <em>The Copywriter Club<\/em>\u2014that makes sense! So, I do feel like sense this crazy few months, you know, I\u2019ve brought on a virtual assistant who is amazing, and will probably have her on the show soon, so that has helped, and I\u2019m working through that very slowly\u2014baby steps\u2014because it\u2019s tricky to on-board people. At least, I have a hard time on-boarding people.<\/p>\n<p>And then I\u2019ve been working on just managing my schedule too, to create more space, because I\u2019m the type of person who will just book everyday, like back to back meetings, which I know you\u2019ve done as well, and that\u2019s been really hard for both of us to just go like, no stop. Like we don\u2019t even stop for bathroom breaks. Like we just book it, flat out, all day, calls back to back, which is crazy. So, I am managing my calendar, creating space on Mondays and Fridays, every morning from 9 to 11; just blocking it. Like, just blocking time now, which is something that I had not done in the past. So again, I kind of feel like I need that pain to really motivate me to make the changes that I need to make, and a lot of what we teach other copywriters to do as well.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>Yep, that sounds good. And you mentioned that you tried a new product, this Accelerator Plus is what we called it, tentatively\u2014an experiment that we ran, because we wanted to be able to connect with the people who have been in the Accelerator but aren\u2019t ready, for whatever reasons, to move up into the <em>Think Tank<\/em>, and you know, we put together a little bit of a program, it was a test; we didn\u2019t launch anything, we didn\u2019t really advertise or tell anybody about it, accept for a few of the people who had been in the <em>Accelerator<\/em>, and with all of the other stuff that was going on in our businesses, and the other launches that we already talked about, it was just too much, you know?<\/p>\n<p>It was one of those things where we had all these great intentions about creating something else, and we just felt like we couldn\u2019t give it 100% because of all of that other stuff going on in our lives, so we pulled the plug, which is the first time we\u2019ve ever done anything like that. And as you mentioned earlier, we see everything as an experiment. It\u2019s never a failure to stop something that\u2019s not working, or to stop something that you can\u2019t give 100% to, because you and I want to deliver the very best that we possibly can, and if the experience we\u2019re creating isn\u2019t phenomenal, then we don\u2019t want to be apart of that. And so, yeah. We actually experimented something and then pulled the plug on it, within a month, because it just didn\u2019t feel like it was meeting everybody\u2019s needs.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah, and I feel like it was a good decision, because it allowed us to start having a bigger conversation about what we want to create, what we want to continue to offer&#8230; Basically, like, what are our offers; what can we do really well. So I feel like i forced us to think about all the difference pieces because you and I have been in the weeds so much, and I like to operate in the weeds and kind of stay in the weeds, and have a hard time pulling back. So we were forced even to just sit down, you know for a couple of hours last week, and talk through the vision and what we actually are building, what we\u2019re putting together, which was a really good conversation. So, i guess the silver lining is that it allowed us to figure out what we can do well, and to focus on that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>Yeah. So, we\u2019ve been really busy, I think is the takeaway from all of this conversation over the last couple of months, and hopefully as we start to approach Summer, we can take a little bit of a step back, relax, be a little bit focused on what we\u2019re building, doing the right stuff in both our own businesses, and <em>The Copywriter Club<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>Right! And we both are taking time in July at different times to go on vacation with our families, and so I think it\u2019s easy for me to work hard when I know that vacation is not that far away, and I really truly want to unplug. So, it makes it easier to hustle a little harder at the beginning of the year. Especially during Winter! What else are you going to do during January and February, right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>Yeah, when it\u2019s cold out, there\u2019s ice, you know&#8230; Who wants to go out in that? Not me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:\u00a0<\/strong>So, how is the Facebook group, Rob?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:\u00a0<\/strong><em>Laughs. <\/em>That is a great question. You know, we\u2019ve had a few things happen over the last couple of weeks that I think we want to just talk through a little bit with everybody. We posted some conversations in Facebook, but, the way Facebook works, a lot of that stuff gets lost, and we just want to be really clear about a couple of things so that everybody knows where we stand, and why sometimes we let things go, maybe longer than people feel appropriate, that kind of thing. So, our Facebook group has reached 7,800 people as of this last week, and continues to grow. We have hundreds of people every week asked to get in. We don\u2019t let every single person in, because we want to make sure that they\u2019re copywriters\u2014they\u2019re working copywriters. We want to make sure their Facebook profiles are real; you know, they\u2019re real people, and they\u2019re not bots or people that are people pretending to be somebody else.<\/p>\n<p>So, for instance, if somebody asked to get in and their Facebook profile picture is Brad Pitt, or something like that, then you know, those people don\u2019t get in. But, we\u2019ve been growing like crazy. We have a ton of copywriters that want to get into the group, and we\u2019re happy to welcome all of them. Really want to make it a place where we can focus and have great discussions, and occasionally we have discussions that turn out to be not-so-great. Not because of the intention, necessarily, but because certain comments go a certain way, or they touch on a political theme, or something else. And so, I think we just want to talk through with everybody what our approach to that stuff is, and where we\u2019re headed in the future.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah and, let\u2019s just say that we have not scripted this out, other than Rob and I have had, you know, many conversations about this, especially recently, but to me, you know, this group? We created this group to create really positive space for copywriters, because Rob and I are clearly community-focused people; we met in a mastermind group, so we both are prove that, together, as cheesy as it sounds, we can really help each other as copywriters, especially since most of us are working from home, co-working spaces. We\u2019re not around other copywriters day to day. So, let\u2019s take this space online, and we\u2019ve been in other Facebook groups, many other groups\u2014we\u2019re in a lot of other groups now\u2014and I have been in groups where it didn\u2019t feel good, and it was very negative, and I left very quickly, and maybe that was just one experience, or maybe that was just the tone of the group\u2014I don\u2019t know\u2014so ultimately, when we created this group, we wanted it to be for the copywriter\u2019s that don\u2019t believe in creating negative spaces and belittling each other, and drama.<\/p>\n<p>So we wanted to keep it really positive. A place that the two of us want to hang out. And we even said from the beginning: if it\u2019s not a place that we look forward to going during the day, you know, in between client work and kind of escaping our client work, or even procrastinate and to go into this group and connect with other copywriters, and help other copywriters and ask questions, if it turned into something where the two of us don\u2019t want to hand out there, then we really need to question what we\u2019re doing, what we\u2019re creating. And it hasn\u2019t been that way, right? I mean, it\u2019s been a very positive space; people have said it\u2019s different from other groups. We haven\u2019t done everything right the entire time, just because we\u2019re learning as we go\u2014it has not been perfect, but I feel like we try to adjust and deal with everything that we\u2019re facing day-to-day, month-to-month, as it\u2019s all new to us. Right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah. I mean there is a <em>lot\u00a0<\/em>that goes on in that group. We have more than 20 posts a day; the engagement is incredibly high; thousands of members; in fact, more than 6,000 members every month engage in some way with the content of our group. So there\u2019s a lot going on, and as you can imagine with members of the group, from literally almost a hundred countries around the world, there are different cultures; different political beliefs; there are different beliefs about the appropriate roles of men and women, and&#8230; I think that\u2019s part of what makes it so interesting, because there\u2019s so much different thinking, and so many different viewpoints that come in, but it also causes some clashes of cultures where, you know, people have very strong viewpoints about the appropriateness of something or another, and I\u2019ll just bring up a couple of posts that have happened recently.<\/p>\n<p>A couple of weeks ago there was a post in which somebody asked about a piece of copy that they had written, and they used a phrase that has not <em>historically\u00a0<\/em>been racist; it has roots thousands of years ago in Greek history. But because it included a word that <em>has\u00a0<\/em>been used as a racist slur, a lot of people felt like that term was racist. And, there was a really healthy discussion around that, but some people felt offended by the fact that others weren\u2019t willing to see such a thing as being racist. People wanted to look at a phrase being different from the word, and all this kind of stuff that came out.<\/p>\n<p>And then a second discussion that happened around some sexist language, you know; I think the post was put up somewhat jokingly about \u201cman-splaining\u201d certain things, and the fees that women charge versus men, and it sparked a discussion that, again, at one point became very personal; people felt personally attacked, and didn\u2019t feel like that kind of conversation we wanted to have in the group. And like you said, when we started out, we wanted to create a group that was a safe space for people to discuss ideas, but isn\u2019t necessarily a safe space <em>from\u00a0<\/em>ideas.<\/p>\n<p>Now that doesn\u2019t mean we wanted people to be offended, or that we want to welcome people to post offensive kinds of things, but we do want to be able to talk about things, especially language which can be so loaded, depending on where you\u2019re coming from and what you believe, but talking about language is ways that it doesn\u2019t get talked about everywhere else.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah, and the tough part with all of this\u2014so, with your first example about the term that has a racist connotation\u2014when do we turn it off? Right? When has the lesson been learned where the person who posted and didn\u2019t know that it was racist, they learned their lesson, and the conversation is over? That\u2019s the tricky part, especially because Rob and I, and Brit\u2014out lovely community manager\u2014like we aren\u2019t in there; we don\u2019t see everything. We can\u2019t catch it in real time. So we\u2019re trying to figure out when\u2019s the right time to cut off conversations, so we\u2019re not over-policing, which many of you have asked us not to do as well, and we don\u2019t want to do that. But when do we cut if off? When it has it gone too far? When has the lesson been learned?<\/p>\n<p>So, for me, as soon as we find out that this term does have racist connotation, then for me, for the lesson is learned: okay, now we know; the conversation\u2019s over. We learned the lesson here, we don\u2019t need to continue to talk about it. That was the question and now we know; a lot of people didn\u2019t know. So I think Rob and I are trying to figure out that tipping point of when conversations need to end, when they shouldn\u2019t even go up, when they have bad intention, right?<\/p>\n<p>So we\u2019re really looking now at the post: what is this person thinking when they post it? Are they really asking a question, or are they just trying to get a rise out of the community? Because we\u2019re not interested in that. We don\u2019t want people to just post something controversial for the sake of posting something controversial. We want people to post something to help the people in the group and to start a conversation that will somehow be connected to copywriters as a profession, and what we do as a profession. So we\u2019re looking now at the intention behind posts as well. Do you want to add anything to that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>Yeah. I would say, we do not necessarily want to censor everything. We don\u2019t want to create a group where everything has to be approved before it goes live, because if people post, they\u2019ve got to wait for you or I to come online to get those discussions going, and that\u2019s really not what the group is about. We trust everybody in the group to be mature and adults about the discussions that are there, to engage in a positive vibe, and to be able to talk about hard things in ways that help other people understand what\u2019s going on. And it\u2019s okay to have differing opinions, to walk away from a conversation and not agree, but we definitely are going to be taking a closer look, especially at things like name-calling and derogatory terms, used particularly against individuals, and we will be looking at posts, a little bit more of a better eye, as to, you know, the intent behind it, like you were saying.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>Yeah. I mean ultimately, we don\u2019t want to create a bubble, right? There are other groups that I\u2019m in; they\u2019re great, but everyone kind of has a similar viewpoint, and belief system, and there is a place for that, but that isn\u2019t what we want to create here. And so, our goal is to figure out how to do this, to do it well, and to keep the bar really high. I think we all deserve that, as copywriters. And so, at this point, if someone posts something, and we find that the intention behind it is not to help or to learn, or to cultivate community, anything like that, then we\u2019re going to look at it more closely. We\u2019ll warn people if it\u2019s something that feels just inappropriate, and if it\u2019s just completely off the walls, then we <em>will\u00a0<\/em>kick somebody out. We don\u2019t want to kick people, but we will if we have to. We haven\u2019t kicked out many people at this point, right Rob? I mean I haven\u2019t kicked out anybody I know. We\u2019ve had to kick out a couple of people.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah, we have kicked out a few people, mostly for name-calling. You know, really negative. We had that happen last spring to one or two people. But after that, you know, it\u2019s only really been a few people who post inappropriate things in the group and it\u2019s not necessarily even been racist or sexist, but you know the same things over and over, or things that are promoting their own services; those kinds of things. So we really don\u2019t want to get to that point where we\u2019re heavy-handed with anything.<\/p>\n<p>I think the one other takeaway about all of this is that, because it\u2019s so hard to understand where other people are coming from or whether the intent is good, that it\u2019s always a good idea just to assume that the intention was not evil, was not negative, that we really are trying to help each other out or throwing out ideas, and that even if the language is indelicate, even if the language might potentially be offensive, the intention probably wasn\u2019t to be offensive. And so, at that point, let\u2019s start a conversation about hey, just so you know, I\u2019m offended by this, and this is why, and you know, again, have a very adult discussion about how language can impact different people.<\/p>\n<p>We don\u2019t have to agree, you don\u2019t have to walk off and say, I\u2019m changing the way I talk to everybody, but it can be eye-opening to see that, okay, if this term is offensive to somebody, maybe I won\u2019t use that in the future.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>Right, and I think we can say again, we want this group to be open to all copywriters, as long as you are a copywriter or have a heavy interest in copywriting, we want to welcome you. So as long as you\u2019re not a robot, you\u2019re welcome in this group. And if you have good intentions, we want you to be in here.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:\u00a0<\/strong>Absolutely. So, we don\u2019t want to end on this note, because maybe it\u2019s not as positive as we\u2019d like, and so, you know, I also want to talk about a podcast I listened to a few weeks ago. It\u2019s actually not a new podcast, it\u2019s been out for a little while, but it\u2019s an episode of <em>The Hidden Brain\u00a0<\/em>that talked about scarcity.<\/p>\n<p>And, it was really fascinating to me as I listened to this podcast because scarcity is one of those things that we talk about all the time as copywriters, how we need to make sure that out customers or clients are experiencing scarcity so that they buy more, and you know, I just wanted to throw out this for people to go and listen to, you know. If you listen to podcasts, check out this episode on scarcity from <em>The Hidden Brain<\/em>, because it\u2019s really interesting in what it says about scarcity.<\/p>\n<p>And again, we all use scarcity and we can talk maybe for a minute or two about why, and why it\u2019s a good thing, and the impact that it has; not just on the writing that we do for our clients, but also on <em>us<\/em>in our own businesses.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:\u00a0<\/strong>All right, so what was your biggest takeaway from that podcast?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:\u00a0<\/strong>So, what was most interesting to me, was that when we\u2019re in a scarcity mindset, we don\u2019t make decisions very wisely. And this is actually one of the reasons why it\u2019s such a powerful motivator. So, <em>The Hidden Brain Podcast\u00a0<\/em>quoted a survey that looked at Indian sugarcane farmers. And Indian sugarcane farmers get paid once a year, which means when they harvest everything, they have a lot more money than they usually do, and like everyone else, they don\u2019t always spend their money wisely, and so as they get, you know, through the end of the summer, they end up being very poor, and don\u2019t have resources that they need. So they enter into this scarcity mindset.<\/p>\n<p>And so, you know, right up until say September when the harvest happens, they\u2019re very poor, and then within a week or two, they\u2019re much better off than they were before. And the kind of decision-making that they do changes when they have resources versus when they don\u2019t. When they have a lot of resources, impulse-control is a lot easier. They don\u2019t make bad decisions. And, it\u2019s not just around spending money wisely, but all of the decision-making they do is better thought out as opposed to when they don\u2019t have resources. They\u2019re more impulse-driven; they make poorer decisions.<\/p>\n<p>And that applies to us in our businesses as well, you know; we\u2019ll see in the Facebook group people are suddenly\u2026 they\u2019ll throw up a post saying I <em>need\u00a0<\/em>clients right now, what do you do to get clients right now? And because they\u2019re feeling that scarcity, not having clients puts them into that mode where they\u2019re not making the best decisions, and it\u2019s very difficult at that point to step outside of ourselves and take a look and see at what\u2019s happening, and so we start doing bad things like, you know, really poor email pitches, cold outreaches that aren\u2019t going to end well because again we\u2019re not thinking through the entire process.<\/p>\n<p>And, think about this from your client\u2019s standpoint, when you\u2019re writing and implementing scarcity into your sales letters, or into a webpage. If you can stimulate that scarcity\u2014this is going to actually sound really manipulative\u2014but they don\u2019t always think through their decisions, and so often times they\u2019ll buy more, or they\u2019ll make a purchase decision that they could regret later, and so we need to be really careful about how we use that, and also how we reinforce decision-making to make sure that it\u2019s the right kind of decision. Does that all make sense?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah. I\u2019m just thinking through; there\u2019s so many different angles as to how you write your copy with scarcity, and then how you\u2019re running your business. So what would you say to copywriters who are feeling that scarcity and are really almost like desperate to find work to get paid this month, next month? How can they reverse that when they feel that pressure, so maybe they are writing a less-stellar cold email?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>Yeah. Well I think the first step is you need to recognize that you are in a scarcity mindset. You need to really stop and say, okay; what\u2019s going on here is I\u2019m panicking because I\u2019m missing the thing that I feel like I need, whether that\u2019s clients or income or the resource that is scarce. You need to take a step back and say, okay, what\u2019s the outcome that I need here? And really think through what is the best way for me to move forward to get to that outcome, to eliminate all of the panic; to eliminate the poor thinking that goes alone when you are obsessed with something like, I need to find another client, or, I need to earn another thousand dollars to make the mortgage, something like that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:\u00a0<\/strong>Maybe it could also be, you know, when you hit that mode where you realize, okay I\u2019m feeling a bit desperate, I\u2019m not feeling great about this, I need to make a thousand bucks ASAP, to focus on what feels uncomfortable, which is just kind of service and helping others. So, it doesn\u2019t mean to necessarily work for free, but the most recent time this has happened to me where all of the sudden I had a slower month after being busy for months and months and months, I\u2019ve just had a moment where I freaked out and was feeling that scarcity. You know: where are all the leads? Where did they go? I had so many last month!<\/p>\n<p>And what helped for me is just going out to all of my contacts and a lot of my copywriter friends, and just saying, hey, how I can I help anybody overwhelmed, anybody overloaded\u2014how can I help you? I\u2019ll take on work; I\u2019ll take whatever you\u2019ve got, I just want to make some cash, and I\u2019ll work hard for you, right? And that helped. I landed a couple of jobs that way, and then just pushed through, and then all of the sudden the leads started to flow again, and part of that you have to do the foundational work, which is building partnerships and relationships ahead of time so that you have people you can go to offer to help, but at least for me that helped in a situation where I was feeling that desperation, and it helped me overcome it by just putting myself out there, being humble enough to take whatever I could. Not feeling bad, really, about saying hey, I don\u2019t have work this month. I think we all have to be able to say that as copywriters if you want to get over, or get through those droughts, and not be too proud during those times.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>Yeah, as you say, I think having a network can really help you deal with these kinds of things, for the very reason that you said: you know, they can help provide work. But they can also give you that feedback and say, \u201chey, wait a second; what you\u2019re feeling is panic, and it\u2019s brought on by the fact that you\u2019re missing something that you feel like you need. So take a step back and look at it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>The other thing too that I would say is this is one reason why, especially once we\u2019ve had a little bit of success, we need to be really careful about saving up just a little bit of money, so that there\u2019s always a little bit of money in the bank, you don\u2019t ever hit that total panic where the mortgage is due tomorrow and you don\u2019t have money to pay it. Now, I know that\u2019s a really difficult thing to say to somebody that\u2019s just starting out or somebody that\u2019s in that space, but it\u2019s probably worth while thinking through just personal finances, and you know, what you need to live on, how can you put some money away for the future, because all of us hit those month or two months where, you know, the leads slow down, or they may dry up altogether before it starts back up, and you don\u2019t want to be in the situation where you\u2019re panicking and doing everything wrong.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah, you\u2019re probably better at that than I am, the whole saving concept.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:\u00a0<\/strong>We\u2019ll see. We\u2019ll see, if my savings ever run out.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:\u00a0<\/strong>I just hit the panic mode or I freak out.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah. But you can see why it\u2019s such a powerful motivator, and why, when we use it on our own sales pages, if you\u2019re using it wisely\u2014which we would also suggest people should do\u2014it is a powerful motivator for people to get the thing that they\u2019re lacking, and to help our clients to sale more things.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:\u00a0<\/strong>Right, but how do you create it? I mean, we don\u2019t want to promote creating false scarcity, right? So, if you\u2019re selling something but there isn\u2019t necessarily scarcity built into it, how can you create that without really manipulating anyone?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah. That\u2019s the magic question. I\u2019ve seen some really manipulative stuff that turned me off. I was looking at a course tool last week, in fact, and they sent me an email saying \u201chey, if you buy in the next <em>four hours<\/em>, you get all this stuff at half price, but this deal goes away in four hours because we\u2019re launching something in another month.\u201d And I was like, well then why does it go away in four hours if it\u2019s not even happening until next month, right? It felt really manipulative, and actually turned me off; I didn\u2019t end up buying the thing.<\/p>\n<p>Compare that to say, Amazon or hotels when you\u2019re booking and it says something like, you know, only two more rooms at this price; assuming that that\u2019s true, then that\u2019s actually a better use of scarcity, right? Because I want to make sure that I get that room at that price. Again, it can be used very manipulatively. And, you don\u2019t want to do that. I think, you know, we need to be honest about whether scarcity is the right selling tool for some of the things we sell. Oftentimes, it\u2019s not.<\/p>\n<p>Oftentimes we should be looking at other behavior triggers to pull instead of scarcity. If something is evergreen, then it\u2019s not scarce, even if you put a countdown timer on it, and you, you know, only limit it to the people as soon as they join your list. That\u2019s still false scarcity, and it\u2019s manipulative, and I think for most things it\u2019s probably not the right way forward, and there\u2019s maybe a better argument to make for your client to buy your product.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:\u00a0<\/strong>All right; so we\u2019ve covered the latest in our businesses, the Facebook group, and scarcity. What\u2019s coming up next for you that you\u2019re really excited about, over the next\u2014let\u2019s say\u2014month or two?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:\u00a0<\/strong>Well, we do have a couple of things that we\u2019re working on in <em>The Copywriter Club<\/em>. Hopefully we\u2019re going to our new website up. Anybody who\u2019s ever been to our website knows how horrible it is, and it was put up, sort of, as a placeholder, and we\u2019ve been working on new designs for quite awhile. People have seen the new logo and that kind of thing, so I\u2019m excited to get that up, and to have a new home base where\u00a0<em>The Copywriter Club\u00a0<\/em>lives. So, we\u2019ve got that.<\/p>\n<p>You and I are working on something else for the entire club that we\u2019re not yet ready to announce, and some changes and some awesome things that I think people are going to appreciate over the next three or four months. Hopefully we can get those done and out. And, I\u2019m honestly looking forward to summer, to having just a little bit more time to myself, to take a little time away. And, you know, relax a little bit. How about you? What\u2019s coming up next for Kira Hug?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:\u00a0<\/strong>Yeah, everything you just said. And, I\u2019m excited about our <em>Accelerator <\/em>program, and our <em>Think Tank\u00a0<\/em>program, because we have all the people in, and so now that we have everyone, we just get to work with them and hang out with them and get to know them, and help them. So, the pressure for launching is off, and we just get to do the work, and get to know these copywriters. And, yeah. It\u2019s a different pace, and I\u2019m looking forward to a slower pace, and scheduling more time over the summer just for fun and for pleasure, and taking off and not being such a workaholic this summer.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:\u00a0<\/strong>I can\u2019t wait to watch you do that. Or maybe not do that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:\u00a0<\/strong><em>Laughs<\/em>. Yeah, we\u2019ll see; we\u2019ll if I can do it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:\u00a0<\/strong>We have some really good episodes coming up on the podcast that we\u2019ve recorded already; we\u2019ve got a really big name that\u2019s going to join us for episode number 100 as kind of a celebratory episode, so that\u2019s still a couple months out, but I\u2019m excited about that stuff too. There\u2019s just so many smart people we get to talk to on a weekly basis, and it really is an opportunity just to keep learning and getting better at our businesses.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:\u00a0<\/strong>All right. Well, thanks for listening to this 90<sup>th<\/sup>episode, non-episode update. We appreciate it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:\u00a0<\/strong>Yep, we appreciate it. Thanks everybody.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>You\u2019ve been listening to <em>The Copywriter Club Podcast\u00a0<\/em>with Kira Hug and Rob Marsh. If you like what you\u2019ve heard, you can help us spread the word by subscribing in iTunes, and by leaving a review. For show notes, a full transcript, and links to our free Facebook community, visit thecopywriterclub.com. We\u2019ll see you next episode.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Wow, ninety episodes. That was fast, right? For the 90th episode of\u00a0The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk about some of the challenges of running a growing Facebook group [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_coblocks_attr":"","_coblocks_dimensions":"","_coblocks_responsive_height":"","_coblocks_accordion_ie_support":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[2],"tags":[7,3,6],"class_list":["post-1484","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-podcast","tag-kira-hug","tag-podcast","tag-rob-marsh"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v26.7 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>TCC Podcast #90: Thoughts about scarcity with Rob Marsh and Kira Hug - The Copywriter Club<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Copywriters Rob Marsh and Kira Hug talk about some recent posts in The Copywriter Club Facebook group, what&#039;s been happening in their businesses, and why scarcity is such a powerful motivator as well as something you need to avoid in your own business.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/thoughts-about-scarcity-rob-marsh-and-kira-hug\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"TCC Podcast #90: Thoughts about scarcity with Rob Marsh and Kira Hug - 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