{"id":646,"date":"2017-05-23T14:43:12","date_gmt":"2017-05-23T07:43:12","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/?p=646"},"modified":"2018-01-05T02:59:46","modified_gmt":"2018-01-04T19:59:46","slug":"agency-copywriter-jason-pickar","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/agency-copywriter-jason-pickar\/","title":{"rendered":"TCC Podcast 34: The &#8220;Machine Gun&#8221; Approach with Jason Pickar"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>LA copywriter, actor, rapper, and comedian, Jason Pickar, is in the club for the 34th episode of the podcast. This\u00a0episode of <em>The Copywriter Club Podcast<\/em>\u00a0comes with\u00a0a warning label\u00a0(for mentions of a controlled substances that are still illegal in most states). Jason&#8217;s an energetic writer with a portfolio full of engaging (and award-winning) work for his client<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright size-medium wp-image-655\" src=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/05\/JasonPickar_Ep034-300x300.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"300\" height=\"300\" srcset=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/05\/JasonPickar_Ep034-300x300.jpg 300w, https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/05\/JasonPickar_Ep034-150x150.jpg 150w, https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/05\/JasonPickar_Ep034-768x768.jpg 768w, https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/05\/JasonPickar_Ep034-1024x1024.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/05\/JasonPickar_Ep034-180x180.jpg 180w, https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/05\/JasonPickar_Ep034-600x600.jpg 600w, https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/05\/JasonPickar_Ep034-400x400.jpg 400w, https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/05\/JasonPickar_Ep034-50x50.jpg 50w, https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/05\/JasonPickar_Ep034.jpg 1350w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/>s. In addition to his career path, Rob and Kira asked him about:<br \/>\n\u2022 How to get on the stage at <em>The Price is Right<\/em> (and meet Drew Carey)<br \/>\n\u2022 How Jason landed his first job (then another and another) in the ad agency world<br \/>\n\u2022 His creative process\u2014an idea he stole from improv<br \/>\n\u2022 His \u201cmachine gun approach\u201d to making sure his ideas get picked by the client<br \/>\n\u2022 Writing 100 headlines in an hour<br \/>\n\u2022 Why companies do \u201cbranding\u201d<br \/>\n\u2022 How he stays creative, and<br \/>\n\u2022 How comedy and improv strengthen his copywriting<\/p>\n<p>Jason\u2019s agency experience is different from most of the copywriters we&#8217;ve interviewed for the show. So load up your iPod (or other listening device) and pull out your notebook. This one&#8217;s a good one. You can also\u00a0click\u00a0the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.<\/p>\n<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_8748\"><!--[if lt IE 9]><script>document.createElement('audio');<\/script><![endif]-->\n<audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-646-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC034.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC034.mp3\">https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC034.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC034.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/?powerpress_pinw=646-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC034.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"TCC034.mp3\">Download<\/a><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/thecopywriterclub.com\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p>\n<h3>The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:<\/h3>\n<p><em>Sponsor:<\/em>\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/www.airstory.co\/club?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com &amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">AirStory<\/a>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.priceisright.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">The Price is Right<br \/>\n<\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=J-GjDDFEUS0\">Jason on the Price is Right<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.deutsch.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Deutch<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/drewfromtv\">Drew Carey<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/mccann.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">McCann Erickson<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/mrm-mccann.com\/en\/index.html?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">MRM<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/tribalworldwide.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">TribalDDB<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/adsoftheworld.com\/media\/online\/shaveeverywherecom?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">ShaveEverywhere.com<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.adweek.com\/brand-marketing\/manscaping-monologues-97066\/?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">BodyGroom Monologues<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.defymedia.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Break Media (now Defy Media)<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.webershandwick.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Weber Shandwick<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.brandcenter.vcu.edu?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">BrandCenter<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/creativecircus.edu?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">The Creative Circus<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.miamiadschool.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Miami Ad School<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/thebookshopads.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Bookshop LA<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/adhousenyc.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">AdHouse<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/AgencySpy\">AgencySpy<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Gilmore_Girls\">Gilmore Girls<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/jasonpickar\">Jason\u2019s Twitter<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/jasonpickar\/\">Jason\u2019s Instagram<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/jasonpickar\/\">Jason\u2019s Facebook<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/freewordsfree.com\/free\/?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Freewordsfree.com<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/kirahug.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Kira\u2019s website<\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/kaleighmoore.us11.list-manage.com\/subscribe?u=7bdb50a2eb0d5b0a501cd1bf4&amp;id=9bf46b3e1d\"><br \/>\n<\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/www.brandstoryonline.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Rob\u2019s website<\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/kaleighmoore.us11.list-manage.com\/subscribe?u=7bdb50a2eb0d5b0a501cd1bf4&amp;id=9bf46b3e1d\"><br \/>\n<\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/groups\/thecopywriterclub\/\">The Copywriter Club Facebook Group<\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\"><br \/>\n<\/a>Intro:\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/soundcloud.com\/fauves\/content-for-now\">Content (for now)<\/a><br \/>\nOutro:\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/album\/gravity\/id304219081?i=304219099\">Gravity<\/a>\n<h3>Full Transcript:<\/h3>\n<p><em>The Copywriter Club Podcast<\/em> is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co\/club.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work. That\u2019s what Rob and I do every week at the Copywriter Club podcast.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> You\u2019re invited to join the club for Episode 34, as a chat with copywriter Jason Pickar about writing for television, working on brands like Dr. Pepper with Madison Avenue ad agencies, how acting and comedy inform his writing, and how to get on the game show The Price Is Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Hey Rob, hey Jason, how\u2019s it going?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Hey guys.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> Hey. It\u2019s going great. Good intro. I\u2019m down with that intro.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Yeah, let\u2019s get to it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Okay. All right. So I think, Jason, a great place to start is with The Price Is Right. First of all, everyone needs to watch the video of you on that show. I just watched it before jumping on here. It\u2019s ridiculous, and Jason\u2019s ridiculous, and it\u2019s hilarious. How did you get on the show, and what was the catalyst for even jumping into that arena?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> You know what? That is a very appropriate question, because I appeared on The Price Is Right on the same day that I picked up my severance check from an old agency I worked at, Deutsch. The catalyst was, quite literally, that whole thing had kind of fallen apart. The creative directors, I\u2019d gone through four of them. Finally, we landed on one. My art director had left. It wasn\u2019t the right fit, so we parted ways after two and a half, three years or so. Then I was at home, just watching TV. I was like, \u201cOh, man, I\u2019ve always loved The Price Is Right. I\u2019m living in Los Angeles, there\u2019s no reason I can\u2019t go on The Price Is Right.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>So I went online, I got a ticket. You go to the studio at, like, 5:00 a.m. Hours and hours and hours before you\u2019re even supposed to be there. I was, like, the second one in line. The key is to just have extremely high energy, be extremely friendly. In the line, they put a couple ringers in there. They\u2019re like, a friendly old woman who is actually kind of notifying the producers who\u2019s good to be on TV, and things like that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Wait, wait, wait. I\u2019ve got to interrupt here, because, \u201cReally? They do?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason: <\/strong>Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not that early\u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> How did you know that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> &#8230; but later in the day. Because you go online, and you go to articles, \u201cHow to Get on The Price Is Right,\u201d and they mention that. I wouldn\u2019t mention it if I hadn\u2019t had a really nice conversation with this older, African American woman, and she had kind of implied that I would definitely be on the show.<\/p>\n<p>Basically, everyone waits in line, and then they let you in the CBS studios, and you keep waiting in line. You start filling out paperwork. Then they give you a name tag with your name written on it in the very special The Price Is Right way, and then everyone meets in groups of six, with the producer. You talk to a producer for 30 seconds to a minute, and they ask you some questions. Then that\u2019s when they decide fully whether you\u2019re going to be on the show or not.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> So you\u2019re meeting with the producer. Are you acting kind of crazy, or just sort of being &#8230; Because the clip of you on the show, you\u2019re a little over the top.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> I mean, that\u2019s what they want, right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Yeah. It makes great TV.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> Yeah. I went in there knowing that they want someone with a lot of energy. I actually drank a 5 Hour Energy right before walking into the theater, because I had been waiting since 5:00 a.m., and by then it was like noon. Yeah. I mean, they want someone with a lot of energy. It\u2019s a lot of emotion. You get called on down. I had joked with these guys in this row a couple rows ahead of me that if I get called down, I\u2019m going to just run right to them, and give them a huge hug. That\u2019s exactly what happened.<\/p>\n<p>It also helps to have a specially designed t-shirt for the show. I had this super bright orange shirt. You want a bright color that will match the settings of The Price Is Right. Then I had an art director friend of mine design that ice climber guy from the ice climber game, except with Drew Carey\u2019s face, and it said \u201cYodelayhee Drew.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Another friend of mine, who has a t-shirt company, screen printed it for me. When you work in advertising, you meet a lot of people with a lot of skills that can come in handy for things like getting on The Price Is Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> I feel like we should probably just end the show. We\u2019re good. So much value already, right? We\u2019ll link to the clip of you on The Price Is Right, because it is funny, it\u2019s fun to watch, and it\u2019s one of those things that anybody who\u2019s watched The Price Is Right when they\u2019re home sick, or off of work or whatever &#8230; What a great career aspiration.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Before we move on from The Price Is Right, though, what were you thinking as you were in it? Were you just so pumped up, or were you just like, \u201cI can\u2019t believe this is happening?\u201d Or were you just caught up in the moment?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> It was all adrenaline. I get called up, and I run down, and they put an item up, and in my head 747 pops up, because it\u2019s the plane. I\u2019m like, \u201cSure, 747. That\u2019s the way to go.\u201d Then that was the right one. Which is, it\u2019s nice, because I won that prize, but the next prize up for grabs was two iPhones &#8230; I know the price of that, 1198 &#8230; Then that\u2019s a chance to win a car.<\/p>\n<p>Unfortunately, I did not have that opportunity. A man named had that opportunity, who you see pop up later when he makes it almost impossible for me to out-spin him.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> That was a tragedy. You missed the dollar by one space, right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> I missed what I needed by one space both times.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Yeah. Heartbreaking.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> Yeah. It hurts.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Heartbreaking. Okay, so let\u2019s back up a little bit, Jason, because your career didn\u2019t start with The Price Is Right. How did you get into <a href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\">copywriting<\/a>? You\u2019ve done something very different from most of the people we\u2019ve talked to, and that is, you\u2019ve worked at several agencies. We\u2019re really curious about the process of working at an agency, getting hired by an agency. So tell us a little bit about your career path to where you are now.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason: <\/strong>Everyone at agencies has completely different ways that they came in, and completely different stories of how their career went. I can only give advice based on me and what I\u2019ve seen, but it started in college. I thought I wanted to be a history major, maybe pre-law. I was studying film as well.<\/p>\n<p>One night I got super high. So terribly high that it\u2019s kind of like, when you\u2019re still beginning to smoke pot, and you\u2019re like, \u201cWhat drug did I take? Was there cocaine it that? I don\u2019t know what\u2019s going on. Did I accidentally smoke PCP?\u201d It\u2019s that weird, like, \u201cI\u2019m not happy about this.\u201d So I was in a fetal position on my top bunk bed in my dorm room, and I had this realization that I didn\u2019t want to be a lawyer.<\/p>\n<p>The only reason I thought I wanted to be a lawyer is because I like arguing with people and convincing people of my opinions. Wouldn\u2019t it be more fun to convince people of opinions in going the film route, going the entertainment route? So I was like, \u201cOh, I could do advertising.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I immediately starting taking all these marketing classes, and film classes. I was a film major. I kind of put those together. Then I got really lucky, because I have an older brother, and that\u2019s helpful because if you have an older sibling who\u2019s gone to college before, maybe they know someone who can help you out in your career. His friend was an art director at McCann Erickson, and he got me an interview for an internship at McCann Erickson in New York between my junior and senior years of college.<\/p>\n<p>I took that interview. I pat myself on the back, I killed it. I got into this internship program. They had 20 or 30 interns across media, and creative, and account and all that sort of stuff. I, again, got really lucky. I got put into this group where it was me and an art director named Jay. We were working directly with two ECDs, because they just needed someone.<\/p>\n<p>They had just won the Intel account, they were working on a new campaign for Intel. So, one of my first projects ended up being something that ran, for a chip called the Intel Vive, which was for TVs and things like that. It was a terrible ad campaing that the ECD had come up with, involving people holding up two fingers in peace signs on either side, and then putting I\u2019s in between the peace signs. It was originally supposed to be much cooler, facing the other direction, but we were informed that in England that means f-off, so we couldn\u2019t do that.<\/p>\n<p>We also worked on the campaign that I kind of saw happen, and helped out with a tiny bit, with laptops and celebrities on people\u2019s laps, and things like that. You know. They gave us intern projects. They said, \u201cHey, there\u2019s a Wendy\u2019s spicy chicken sandwich. What\u2019s a campaign that you can come up with for that?\u201d This was 12 years ago, and it was still kind of a clever idea to create a group that was against whatever thing you were talking about. So it was like, people against the misuse of spice, and all these crazy stories. Kind of like an anti-drug thing.<\/p>\n<p>Then we got an intern project to &#8230; There was a local doggie day care, called Biscuits and Bath. I actually ended up writing a print campaign and some videos and posters that they ended up using around this concept of \u201ctell your human,\u201d and we\u2019re advertising to the dogs, we\u2019re not advertising to the people. That was a really great way to start, an internship where I had a bunch of stuff that ended up running.<\/p>\n<p>As a result, the next year, their interactive agency was willing to hire me, even though I had a very small portfolio. It did help that when I was interviewing with that GCD that I ended up working for, he was in the middle of pitching to Nikon a reality show about photographers, kind of like a Project Runway, but for photographers. I had just come back from a week as a camera operator on a reality show pilot that didn\u2019t end up going anywhere. The fact that I came in with this other experience was really attractive.<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s something that I\u2019ve found throughout my career. Everyone likes seeing a good portfolio, but they\u2019re more interested in seeing a huge breadth of capabilities and interests. They want people who can complement them in ways that they hadn\u2019t considered before.<\/p>\n<p>So, yeah. I ended up working for that agency, MRM, for just under a year. I worked on some pretty fun Wendy\u2019s stuff that I\u2019m still very, very proud of. A lot of comedy sketches and things for this Bureau for Better Value campaign. Nikon ended up doing a really nice campaign for the Nikon 70 D or something. I don\u2019t even remember anymore. But we gave the camera to Flickr photographers. That was a new idea at the time, giving to who we\u2019ll just now call \u201cinfluencers.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Then I ended up writing was Exxon-Mobile\u2019s industrial lubricant website. So it\u2019s not all fun. Sometimes you don\u2019t get to just do comedy sketches.<\/p>\n<p>I ended up being told to write a letter for the Army. It was the letter that people would be calling to receive this free America\u2019s Army video game that MRM had developed. They wanted someone to write a letter that would be signed by the general encouraging people to join the army. This was in 2006, 2007. The war in Iraq was still going on. I did not feel comfortable with that. I had a creative director on that project who was British, and told me to be patriotic, which I thought was a little ironic.<\/p>\n<p>I talked to an ACD of mine, and she put me in touch with some of her former co-workers, and I ended up getting a job at Tribal DDB, where I worked for two and a half years or so. There I worked on a lot. That place was a mad house. That was a sweat shop, frat house where you were just pounding out interactive ideas. As many as humanly possible.<\/p>\n<p>But I got to work on things like Guinness. We did the Proposition 317 to make St. Patrick\u2019s Day an official holiday, and did some really fun stuff around that. That was all Diageo. So I got to do Guinness, and Baileys, and Jose Cuervo, and Smirnoff Ice, and Ketel One. I helped launch Jeremiah Weed Sweet Tea Flavored Vodka. I did Neutrogena, and Clean and Clear. Now I\u2019m just listing stuff off. But I got a lot of interactive experience over there.<\/p>\n<p>Did some really fun stuff for Philips. They have a product called the Bodygroom. I got to do a follow-up to a website that did very well in awards that I wasn\u2019t involved in, called shaveeverywhere.com. When they wanted to advertise their ear and nose hair trimmer, we went with this idea that another copywriter and I came up with called \u201csecond puberty.\u201d When you get your nose hair, that\u2019s your second puberty. We created all these animations.<\/p>\n<p>That was like a real, hard core writers\u2019 room experience, because we all locked ourselves into this conference room, and my ACD at the time, who\u2019s a bit of a mentor to me, he was like, \u201cOkay, let\u2019s all just make a list of all the jokes we\u2019ve been wanting to make in our work for years. Then we\u2019ll see if we can work some of them in.\u201d It was just such a weird way to work, but really fun. We ended up with some really cool stuff.<\/p>\n<p>The next year, we worked on the Bodygroom Manologues, which was like the Vagina Monologues, but for men, about body hair. That created one of my most awkward situations at work. We were working in a big pit. That\u2019s what it was called, the pit. All the desks were facing the wall, and they were lining the outside. Then there was a strip of desks down the middle, with people right behind you.<\/p>\n<p>My art director and I were working on these Manologues. I was reading out a few different monologues I had written to see if they flowed, to see if they were funny, all about chest hair, shoulder hair, ball hair, all that stuff. There was this art director who was a freelancer right behind me, and she wasn\u2019t working on the same project we were. She didn\u2019t know what we were working on. But in the middle of me going through this, she turns around and she was like, \u201cEnough! Enough! I\u2019ve heard enough about your balls. It\u2019s not appropriate. It needs to stop.\u201d I was like, \u201cI am doing work here. You need to stop.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Yeah. I feel like it\u2019s been a while since the question happened, I\u2019ve just been kind of monologue-ing. But then I got a job at Deutsch. Then I went freelance for a while. Then I was in charge of branded video content at Break Media for a little while. I went full time at Weber Shandwick over a year ago as an associate creative director.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Okay. Well. That is quite-<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> This is going to be a long show, guys. Going to be a long show.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> That is quite an impressive list. I think the part that I keep asking, in my mind, as you\u2019re repeating this and sharing all your experience is, what does a creative process look like for you in these agencies. You mentioned there was a writers\u2019 room. You mentioned the pit. Is there a typical experience, when you take on a project, that really helps you deliver the best creative project, or deliverable?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> Oh yeah, definitely. At this point, my creative director is the CCO out here in L.A., and I work directly together, and we have couple people on our team across the country. We\u2019ve got it down to a bit of a science. Basically, it\u2019s a lot of the same rules that you follow in improv. It\u2019s \u201cyes, and.\u201d Someone comes up with an idea, you see if you can improve it. You\u2019re positive about it. Then you move on, and you come up with a new idea.<\/p>\n<p>I really had to get good at that when I was freelancing, because I\u2019d be working for people who had never worked with me before. They had maybe seen my stuff, or heard that I was good, but we had never worked together. I would need to make sure that at least one of my ideas was something that they wanted. In order to make sure that one of my ideas was something they wanted, I would come up with 10, 20, 30, 40, however many ideas I needed to come up with until the right one was right.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s a very machine gun approach to creativity. It\u2019s this idea of \u201cthere\u2019s always a new idea, we can come up with it, and then we can decide later if it\u2019s the right idea, or a good idea, or it needs to be tweaked.\u201d That really helps, just positivity, bringing all that creativity forward.<\/p>\n<p>There\u2019s this practice in improv, when you\u2019re learning in classes. A teacher might say, \u201cNew choice.\u201d The idea behind that is, you said a line, and they want you to make a different choice. So you were like, \u201cOh, the dog\u2019s really noisy out there.\u201d \u201cNew choice.\u201d \u201cThat balloon is beautiful.\u201d \u201cNew choice.\u201d That can go on for dozens of times.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s that same kind of idea. There\u2019s always another way to go, and we\u2019ll eventually find the right way. I guess my copywriting is also a little bit different than a lot of the people that you guys talk to, because I\u2019m not usually trying to convert. I\u2019m usually trying to inspire, engage, draw emotion, that kind of thing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Jason, let\u2019s talk a little bit about that process, because where we tend to put so much emphasis on the moment that somebody decides to buy, you guys are doing info-tainment, in some ways, or entertainment, and brand-building. It\u2019s an entirely different discipline. Within the conversion side of copywriting, it gets a lot of criticism. People pan it, and say it\u2019s not worth the money you spend on it. It\u2019s all about entertainment, it doesn\u2019t actually lead to sales. Talk a little bit about why companies do branding, and do creative the way you do it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason: <\/strong>When it comes to the brand, it\u2019s not just the website that you go to, or the flier that you see, or the Tweet that you read, or the ad, or anything. It\u2019s everything that works together. Any brand that exists needs to come to the market with a perspective. They need a point of view. They need to be able to put their stake in the ground and stand for something. If you don\u2019t stand for anything, then no one\u2019s going to be interested in what you\u2019re buying.<\/p>\n<p>A lot of times, it\u2019s a matter of tapping into something that\u2019s happening within culture. So, maybe this is a product that can help the maker movement. Maybe this is a product that is really to benefit the slow food movement. Then you grow with that as it grows.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s this idea that when people are making a decision on what to buy, it\u2019s not science. It\u2019s not fully rational decision. It is always an amalgamation of everything that they know about the brand, everything that they\u2019ve experienced with the brand previously.<\/p>\n<p>When you\u2019re buying a Coca Cola, it\u2019s not because you love the commercial. It\u2019s because not only do you love the taste, but it reminds you of when you were eight, it was July fourth, and you had a picnic with your family, and it was a great time. That\u2019s why it\u2019s \u201cOpen happiness.\u201d They want to tap into those nostalgic, happy memories that you have.<\/p>\n<p>As opposed to a Red Bull, which, you want to talk about infotainment, Red Bull doesn\u2019t need to inform you what they do. They go out and do it. So when they\u2019re out and creating Flugtag, and soap box derby races, and crazy jet races through buildings and things like that, that\u2019s not them saying, \u201cHey, we give you wings,\u201d that\u2019s them giving people wings. They don\u2019t need to defend it, because everyone knows that\u2019s what they do. That\u2019s just another aspects of, okay, brands can build themselves into culture and be fully embraced by the people who could most benefit from the product.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Jason, I\u2019m going in a different direction here. From your experience in agencies, what do you think you do there, or you learned, that freelance copywriters are just completely missing out on?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> Here\u2019s what freelance copywriters are missing out on. More than copywriting. Because my entire career, I\u2019ve survived by doing stuff that wasn\u2019t copywriting. When I was at Tribal DDB in the middle of the recession, I would write. But when they needed me to, I would export the videos that needed to be exported the right way, I would edit and do some small after-effects things. Whatever was needed to be done, and if I could help, I would. That helps you gain trust amongst other people.<\/p>\n<p>Again, it\u2019s about this breadth of experience, and about this ability to do more than just write. That\u2019s where ideas come from, and that\u2019s what clients are looking for, because these days, I don\u2019t pitch TV spots as much. I don\u2019t pitch even necessarily, like, \u201cHere\u2019s a website that you can do.\u201d A lot of times it\u2019s a brand act. Something that the brand can do that can get attention and get people to talk.<\/p>\n<p>One of the most successful ones in the last couple weeks, McCann Erickson actually did this defiant girl against the Wall Street bull for International Women\u2019s Day. The number of people who aren\u2019t in advertising who I saw share a news article about that was astonishing. That\u2019s good for them, and that\u2019s not a TV ad. That\u2019s not a print ad. That\u2019s just standing for something, and you know what, I don\u2019t even know what brand it was, which is unfortunate, because that\u2019s not good for the brand, but clearly it\u2019s good for McCann Erickson. It\u2019s about more than writing, and more than writing what you know, is what I would say.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> I think what you said there about not knowing what the brand is, I think that\u2019s the weakness that a lot of people point to so much, brand advertising, is that the story is so good that the brand message can get lost in the story. So it\u2019s pretty critical to be able to have both the brand message, or whatever that idea is, but that it ties to something that\u2019s core to the brand\u2019s purpose, to that they\u2019re related.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> Exactly. When you\u2019re doing new business, a lot of times you find yourself writing a lot of manifestos, and writing a lot of tag lines. Again, I take this machine gun approach. When I\u2019m trying to find the right words that represent a company, I\u2019m going to create a list of 100 or 200 lines from a huge range of different ways to go about it, and then I\u2019m going to look back and circle the ones I like, and focus on those ones and see if those can be tweaked or should be tweaked.<\/p>\n<p>I remember when I was an intern working on that Intel stuff, and my creative director said, \u201cHey, I need you to make a list of 100 possible tag lines. I like the idea of a leap. So something about a leap.\u201d So I created 100 lines. \u201cLeap beyond.\u201d \u201cJump ahead.\u201d Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. He landed on \u201cLeap ahead,\u201d which wasn\u2019t one that was on my list, which further proves that there\u2019s always more that you can write.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> You mentioned, when we started talking about your career path, that everybody has a different entry point into advertising. If I were just out of school, or maybe I\u2019m a 30-something, and I want a career change, and I think I might want to get into a job as a copywriter in an agency, what kinds of things would I need to do? How do I develop that book, or how do I get that attention?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> There are any number of schools that can help you create a portfolio, which are taught by agency professionals. I know at least in New York, Chicago, L.A., and other major cities there are these night classes that are taught by professionals. If you\u2019re just out of college and you still have some time, and you\u2019re thinking about doing some sort of master\u2019s program, there are some really good ones out there.<\/p>\n<p>I never went to Brand Center, but everyone I know who went there at Virginia Commonwealth University, everyone I know from there not only is doing great in their career, but they\u2019re also really smart and really good at what they do. That\u2019s a really good leg up, to start surrounded by people who are already ahead of other people. The Creative Circus, the Miami Ad School, those are all good schools. The Book Shop, L.A., and Ad House. I forget the names of all of them, but that\u2019s a good way to get some briefs, get your feet wet, try creating some communications, and learn from people who know what they\u2019re doing.<\/p>\n<p>Start learning how to take notes and how to change your ideas, because a lot of what advertising is &#8230; People go in thinking, \u201cOh, okay, I\u2019m a writer,\u201d or \u201cI\u2019m an art director. We\u2019re artists. People are going to just trust us that what we say is right.\u201d Actually, no, the job is mostly compromising. It\u2019s almost 100% trying to convince people that this direction is right. Then a client doesn\u2019t necessarily want to take that huge risk, so let\u2019s take it a step back, or do this, or do that, or how can we change it, or what can we do to keep it alive.<\/p>\n<p>There are those schools. But if you\u2019re not anywhere near any of those schools, or you don\u2019t have the time or money to take classes, the other move is to find other people who are trying to get into advertising. Find yourself an art director. Find yourself a wannabe, even a strategist, who might help you come up with different ways in.<\/p>\n<p>A lot of times, creative is helped largely be the strategists, and the person who says, \u201cYou know, this is a really interesting cultural territory to explore, why don\u2019t you focus there?\u201d It\u2019s about finding other people. You can go on Craigslist, or Facebook, or however you do it, and you build a portfolio together.<\/p>\n<p>Then, once your portfolio is together, usually five or six campaigns, not all print ads, show some sort of guerrilla tactics, show some sort of digital engagement tactics that are clever and interesting, and show that you are approaching things from a completely original and new direction. If you do that, then it\u2019s a lot easier to get your foot in the door if you have a really cool portfolio.<\/p>\n<p>The other thing to do is, okay, you have a cool portfolio. If you went to one of these schools, they put you in touch with possible places to work. There are job fairs that you get hired right out of school. If you didn\u2019t do that, maybe you do a stunt. Maybe there\u2019s something you can do that can get a little bit of attention.<\/p>\n<p>I used to do this when I still knew people who were working at AgencySpy, I used to, when I needed more freelance work, I\u2019d be like, \u201cOkay, here\u2019s an ad to hire a Jew to work for you on Christmas. Hey, AgencySpy, could you run this?\u201d Things like that.<\/p>\n<p>I saw a recent one, this isn\u2019t the best example, necessarily, but there someone who they said, \u201cOkay, I\u2019m going to write an ad a day for a year. Some of them were pretty good. They\u2019re all one-offs. They\u2019re all print ads. My criticism would be, \u201cHey, show us full campaigns,\u201d but the fact is, he got attention for that. He got press for that. I\u2019m sure he got some work out of that. You\u2019re giving your clients advice on how to get attention, how to convert. You need to do the same things, and you need to be a step ahead.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> I was just going to ask you how you stay a step ahead, and how you actually really just stay creative? Because clearly you\u2019re a creative guy, but I think we all know, once you have project overload anyone can feel burnt out, and lose their creativity. Even as you were listing your great ideas for us, coming up with 100 different ideas for a tag line, that was something I was like, \u201cYeah. Why am I not doing that? I usually come up with five, and then I\u2019m good.\u201d It\u2019s usually because there\u2019s pressure for time, and there\u2019s overwhelm. How do you deal with that, and stay creative?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason: <\/strong>It\u2019s about the speed. How long does it usually take you to think up those five lines?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> I don\u2019t even know. Maybe an hour?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> Right. The same way I would come up with five lines would be stream of conscious tag line writing. You\u2019d write one, you\u2019d press enter, you write something slightly different, you press enter, you write something slightly different, you press enter, and you keep going, and you keep going, and you keep going and then you go back and you look. It\u2019s the same idea, with kind of, okay, let\u2019s do some really fast brainstorms. Let\u2019s come up with lots of ideas, because if we come up with lots of ideas really quickly, it\u2019s hard to get worn out, because it\u2019s over in half an hour or an hour. Then you move on to something else.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>That makes sense. Speed is the game, right? And not editing yourself as you go, which I tend to do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> Exactly. But you asked how I stay a step ahead, and how I stay creative. A lot of that is I\u2019ve been doing stand-up for 10, 11 years. I rap. I\u2019ve been doing improv comedy. I act. Kind of tapping into this other aspect of my creativity helps inform and push the creativity that I have to do for work.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Can we dive into that, just a little bit?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason: <\/strong>Sure.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> I\u2019ve watched a few of your comedy sets. I haven\u2019t seen your improv, but I\u2019m assuming that what you were saying earlier about the plus one, or the \u201cand one\u201d ideas always, it does something to inform the way that you write and what you bring to the table for your clients. Tell us a little bit more about how those two interact.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> The good news is that if you\u2019re working for good people, who want creative people, then they want to see you doing all this side stuff, because they know that they benefit from it. It comes down to when you are working on a sketch, for your comedy friends, the things you learn about timing and what people find funny and what was successful there, is exactly what can be applied to some internal corporate video that you have to write for one of your clients.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m really lucky, because Weber Shandwick, they really do consider themselves to be one of the best places to work, and as a result of that, they act that way. When I have something like a Gilmore Girls audition, I can leave a meeting where we\u2019re working on new business that\u2019s been happening for months, and be cheered, and told, \u201cHey, go get it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>If I get something, then they\u2019re flexible in letting me take that time off without as much notice, because they understand that by allowing their people to express themselves and find these creative outlets, that not only do their clients benefit, but Weber Shandwick benefits as well. If my career as a character actor goes as well as I would like it to, and I can still keep working at Weber Shandwick, then Weber looks great because they have this somewhat known entity who\u2019s coming up with ideas for them, and hey, you need a spokesperson who looks like me, then great. Because I\u2019m already on the payroll.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s all about encouraging the exploration of your creativity. I was doing improv in college and in high school, but I didn\u2019t do stand-up until one night at work, we did this thing called a pecha kucha. Everyone has 20 PowerPoint slides that take 20 seconds each. You talk about whatever you want, you make your slides about whatever you want. I made mine about procrastination, because I procrastinated on the project.<\/p>\n<p>Afterwards, people were like, \u201cWhy don\u2019t you do stand-up?\u201d I was like, \u201cOh, yeah, why don\u2019t I do stand-up?\u201d Actually, that started as a result of being encouraged to go into it from creative directors. From people in advertising.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Do we all have the capacity to be a star like you? Is that something that we can all nurture? Especially with today\u2019s marketing world, where we have Facebook Live, we have YouTube, we have Instagram Stories. Do we all need to nurture that, when we\u2019re running our own businesses and we can\u2019t hire an advertising team, or a team or actors? Do we become the entertainers in our own brands?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> First of all, star &#8230; I thank you. I\u2019m not as good about that as I should be. I Instagram occasionally, and I post political articles on Face &#8230; I\u2019m not hosting Facebook Lives, and I\u2019m not creating original content that I should be and could be. If I had done that, maybe I wouldn\u2019t even be in advertising. Maybe I\u2019d be in entertainment at this point.<\/p>\n<p>If you can, if you have the capacity to do that extra work, to step out, and maybe it\u2019s not comedy sketches. Maybe it\u2019s not a stand-up set, or a quick, funny video. Maybe what you do is really thoughtful podcasting and interviews, like you guys. Maybe you\u2019re more interested in long form writing, and you can become a thought leader on Medium, or on LinkedIn.<\/p>\n<p>A lot of what I end up doing is, we tell our corporate clients, \u201cOkay, you need to have your board of directors creating content and being thought leaders. If you are doing this work, you can be a thought leader, too. You just need to write the articles and get them out, and maybe put a little money behind it to make sure that it gets read by the people who you want to read it. Then you can have the opportunity to do more things. Maybe get invited to speak at a conference. That can only improve your opportunities for work. It\u2019s just about taking any opportunity you can find and grabbing at it, if it feels natural to you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Jason, one of the things that I see copywriters, especially in agencies, are generally doing what you\u2019re talking about. They\u2019re really good self-promoters. But you don\u2019t have a Jason Picard website. You don\u2019t really have an online portfolio, other than a few things you\u2019ve posted on Pinterest, and Twitter, Tumblr a little bit. Tell us why.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason: <\/strong>I do have a portfolio. It is available at jasonpickar.com, which then forwards you to pinterest.com\/adportfolio. Back in 2008, when I needed a quick portfolio, WordPress was still fairly early, so I made a blog, because that was the thing at the time. In 2010 when I needed a new job and Twitter had become a thing, I got twitter.com\/adportfolio, and wrote little 140 character words, and that\u2019s where I would forward people to. When Pinterest was popular, I said, \u201cOkay, let me put my portfolio on there.\u201d I haven\u2019t changed it since, because the rest have all been through relationships. I\u2019ve always felt that by having my pinterest.com\/adportfolio, it\u2019s a subtle smile to the fact that, look, I\u2019m not the one who is going to code you a beautiful website, but I will use tools in ways that you haven\u2019t necessarily thought of using them, and here\u2019s the proof. That\u2019s really what it comes down to. The portfolio\u2019s there. I\u2019m not as good at updating it as I should be. But again, my current job I have because I ran into one of my old creative directors at Whole Foods, told him I was freelancing, I freelanced there for a year and a half and then they brought me on full time.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> One last question for you. Because we ask so many people about how they make their money, what they make, what they charge, what could a copywriter working at an agency like the one you work at, or some of the others that you\u2019ve worked at, what could they expect to be making at that point in their career? Same question about assistant creative directors, creative directors. What does the pay scale look like?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> Sure. A copywriter, you could be starting, depending on the size of the agency and the city where you\u2019re working, you might be starting anywhere between $35,000 and $55,000. Then you move up from there. 50, 60, 65, 70, 75.<\/p>\n<p>Sometimes you keep moving forward. You make a bunch at one agency and then when you move on, after you freelance for a while, you take a little bit of a pay cut. That\u2019s fine, because if you\u2019re doing good work, that gets you attention. That\u2019s what matters. Senior copywriters could be up to 95 or so, probably.<\/p>\n<p>When you\u2019re talking ACDs, I think the average is anywhere between maybe 130 and 160, 170. Again, if it\u2019s a huge agency, all bets are off. You never know, right? That\u2019s kind of the 130ish and up is the average ACD range. Midwestern agencies may pay a little less, New York agencies may pay a little bit more.<\/p>\n<p>When I was freelance, I started trying to get $1,000 a day, because that\u2019s what I knew people were getting in New York, but I wasn\u2019t able to get that. Maybe some people are able to get that in L.A. I wasn\u2019t able to, I had to discount it to $800 a day instead. Even at that point it was like some agencies &#8230; I had one production company that would hire me for three hours at a time, because they couldn\u2019t afford my full day rate. I would just come in and rapidly brainstorm for them, and then really quickly write up TV commercial ideas.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Well, Jason, this has been really helpful and interesting just to get a glimpse into the ad agency world, especially for so many of us who\u2019ve never been in that world. I feel like there\u2019s a lot more we can learn.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason: <\/strong>Yeah. I feel like I rambled a lot. There\u2019s probably a lot more we could\u2019ve talked about.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> I was going to ask you, you\u2019ll just have to come back, because I do want to hear more. I think there\u2019s a lot more in there that we can benefit from as copywriters. In the meantime, where can people find you online?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> People can find me on Twitter @jasonpickar, Instagram at jasonpickar, jasonpickar Facebook is my acting Facebook page. That\u2019s always a good thing to check out. If you want to check out my album, it\u2019s available. Freewordsfree.com\/free. If you live in L.A., I perform improv and stand-up around town, so come check it out. Follow me and I\u2019m sure there will be a way that you can see where I\u2019m at. Yeah. That\u2019s probably pretty good.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Last question. Where do you want to be five years from now?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> I alluded to this earlier, but I would love to be a more regularly working character actor while still able to hold down a creative director position, and providing that kind of larger vision and manifesto type work that can be done between takes, or whatever. If people recognize my face, and said, \u201cHey, I want to cast that guy in something,\u201d that would be wonderful.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> So let\u2019s hope our massive audience of casting directors is listening, and can reach out.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> And all of your copywriters who write TV ads. Because I know that\u2019s the kind of copywriter who\u2019s listening to this show.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Let\u2019s make it happen.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira: <\/strong>All right. Thank you, Jason, and we\u2019ll have you back on again.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Thanks Jason.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason: <\/strong>Yeah. Thank you so much.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:\u00a0<\/strong>Before we end the podcast, we just want to tell you about our sponsor, Airstory. Airstory is an application designed to help you write faster and it does a few things really well. It makes collaborating with others on your team easier. So if you work with clients or other team members on projects, you\u2019ll love the way that you can interact within your project documents.<\/p>\n<p>But there are two things that we really like about Airstory that you won\u2019t get with Word or Google Docs. The first is the way that it let\u2019s you organize information into cards.<\/p>\n<p>If you refer to research or other information when writing blog posts or websites or sales pages, you\u2019ll love the way that you can organize bits of information or entire articles into a card file that you can then drag and drop into your document.<\/p>\n<p>And if you do your research online, Airstory\u2019s chrome extension lets you cut and save information directly into Airstory. It\u2019s pretty cool.<\/p>\n<p>Plus Airstory has a library of templates that you can use on different projects. So let\u2019s say you\u2019ve been hired to write a sales page or an email sequence and you don\u2019t have any experience or you want additional inspiration for the project. You can go into the template library, find a template for what you\u2019re working on and use it to start your document.<\/p>\n<p>Maybe best of all, you can try it now for free. In fact, one project at Airstory is always free.<\/p>\n<p>If you\u2019re a professional writer, there\u2019s so much here that can help you. Check it out at Airstory.co\/club.<\/p>\n<p>You\u2019ve been listening to\u00a0<em>The Copywriter Club Podcast<\/em>\u00a0with\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/www.airstory.co\/club?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Kira Hug<\/a>\u00a0and\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/www.brandstoryonline.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Rob Marsh<\/a>. Music for the show is a clip from Gravity by Whitest Boy Alive, available in iTunes. If you like what you\u2019ve heard, you can help us spread the word by subscribing in iTunes and by leaving a review. For show notes, and full transcript, and links to\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/bit.ly\/2irulZp\">our free Facebook community<\/a>, visit\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\">thecopywriterclub.com<\/a>. We\u2019ll see you next episode.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>LA copywriter, actor, rapper, and comedian, Jason Pickar, is in the club for the 34th episode of the podcast. This\u00a0episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast\u00a0comes with\u00a0a warning label\u00a0(for mentions of [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_coblocks_attr":"","_coblocks_dimensions":"","_coblocks_responsive_height":"","_coblocks_accordion_ie_support":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[2],"tags":[50,3],"class_list":["post-646","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-podcast","tag-jason-pickar","tag-podcast"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v26.7 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>TCC Podcast 34: The &quot;Machine Gun&quot; Approach with Jason Pickar - The Copywriter Club<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"[interview] Ad agency copywriter Jason Pickar on how to get a job at an agency, the creative process, branding, how much agency copywriters make and more...\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/agency-copywriter-jason-pickar\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"TCC Podcast 34: The &quot;Machine Gun&quot; 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