Gravity<\/a>\nFull Transcript:<\/h3>\n
The Copywriter Club Podcast<\/em> is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co\/club.<\/p>\nRob:<\/strong> What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about the successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That\u2019s was Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast<\/em>.<\/p>\nKira:<\/strong> You\u2019re invited to join the Club for Episode 35, as we chat with copywriter Misha Heady about using social media in her copywriting business, and what other writers could be doing better there. Juggling her time as a parent, writer, photographer and coach, how Facebook Live has impacted her business and spending an afternoon taking photos of Rob and me in San Antonio.<\/p>\nRob:<\/strong> Hey Misha.<\/p>\nKira:<\/strong> Hello Misha.<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> Hey guys, how are you?<\/p>\nRob:<\/strong> We\u2019re great, how are you?<\/p>\nKira:<\/strong> Thanks.<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> Yeah, I\u2019m okay. I\u2019m having a bit of a morning here, and I don\u2019t know if you can her my dog in the background, but I apologize if you could.<\/p>\nRob:<\/strong> We did hear a little bit but I think was might be able with cut most of that out.<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> Okay, I\u2019m sorry. I swear to God. She\u2019s like, \u201cOh, you\u2019re on a call, let me go freak out about something.<\/p>\nKira:<\/strong> It\u2019s okay. I think it\u2019s been one of those days for all three of us, which means this is going to be a great conversation.<\/p>\nRob:<\/strong> Exactly.<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\nKira:<\/strong> So, Misha, let\u2019s start with, you know, where you come from. Because you are this multi-talented, creative, big personality, you\u2019ve played a really big role in the copywriter club, so where did you come from. What were you doing before you were in the club as a copywriter?<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> Well, Kira, when a man and a woman love each other very, very much … okay, JK, terrible, terrible joke. So, where do I come from? I used to be a nine-to-fiver, like most people, and one day I lost my job, and I was like, I got to figure this out. It\u2019s actually a longer story than that, but that\u2019s, you know, the gist of it. And in that last position, I had been using a lot of social media tools to kind of grow people\u2019s knowledge of our gallery. It was a tile gallery. This is like way back in the day when Flicker was like the hottest thing around.<\/p>\nTo grow people\u2019s knowledge of our gallery, and at the same time I was studying photography more, so that is basically the short story of how I became and entrepreneur, because it\u2019s not a very poetic story, but it\u2019s the truth.<\/p>\n
Rob:<\/strong> Walk us this step-by-step. So, you lost your job, and then suddenly you weren\u2019t a writer\/photographer, whatever. As for as setting up your business, tell us more about that process.<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> Oh, no. It was literally that next day. No, just kidding. The seedy underbelly of the story is that I was actually five months pregnant, and they closed the showroom that I was working in. And, as a dude you don\u2019t know this, but when you are five months pregnant, like visibly pregnant, no one wants to hire you, like with a ten-foot pole. So I was in this position of, I need to make money for my family, and no one wants to hire me, so what am I going to do?<\/p>\nIt took some time to figure it out, because I was afraid to make that leap from steady paycheck to working for myself. I thank the great State of Texas for the jucy unemployment checks. That was very helpful at the time. Literally, the day I was in labor with my daughter, I bought my first domain name, and I went from there. I figured it out. Threw together same pricing packages for photography and started taking clients when my daughter was about six weeks old.<\/p>\n
Kira:<\/strong> You started with photography, and then how did you make your way into the copywriting world and really kind of specialize as a communicator, a strategic communicator?<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> I wish I had really cool stories about this. I wish there was some sort of movie moment where people were chanting my name or something like that, but I actually moved. At the time that I was a photographer, I built myself up from my first client paying me like $175 to regularly selling packages that were $2,400 and above, and then I moved from Texas to California. And the problem with that is when you are a local service provider, you have to have a local clientele.<\/p>\nWhen I moved, I had no one and nothing. So I spent that time blogging about photography, and how to improve your photography business. Yeah, people started hiring me for my opinion, because they\u2019re like, \u201cWell you grew your business in under a year, from, like I said, 175 bucks to 2,400 bucks per client. How can we do that too?\u201d That is when I started offering communications coaching and copywriting services. It was like a totally organic thing because that\u2019s what my people were asking me for.<\/p>\n
Rob:<\/strong> Yeah, I was going to say, you know, even when I go to your website, it\u2019s photography based, but, you know, I know you as a writer because you\u2019re showing up in our group as a writer. Do you start with the photo products and then people ask you for help with the writing, or do you actually have a way that you approach clients for copywriting as well?<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> Now, it\u2019s morphed into something where I keep the two completely separate. The photo business is its own animal, and then the copywriting is my main jam. Basically, I decided if I didn\u2019t have to leave my house ever, that would be better. I could write for anyone in the world to any time of day, and not have to worry about rain, you know, or bugs, like you guys got to experience some of our Texas bugs the other day.<\/p>\nWhen I approach a copywriting client, it\u2019s from a copywriting standpoint only. I will, occasionally, like let\u2019s say it\u2019s a communication strategy client, I will say, the images on your site, they\u2019re kind of problematic because it doesn\u2019t fit your aesthetic, of whatever, so I do offer a side dish of that, but the copywriting is my main jam, if you will.<\/p>\n
Kira:<\/strong> Okay, and because you mentioned it, can you just share the breakdown of your services under the copy communications arm of your business? Just to give us some context as to what your putting out there in the world and how you\u2019re making money.<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> I know, I know, I\u2019m supposed to niche down, I\u2019m supposed to have a very specific answer for this, but …<\/p>\nKira:<\/strong> No, that\u2019s not true, that\u2019s not true.<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> Yeah. I don\u2019t do that. I do web and sales copy. I do specifically, when people are in the second or third iteration of their business, and it\u2019s not quite right. I help them create a strategy for portraying themselves. And if sometimes that looks like web copy, I may redo their website, sometimes that looks like sales copy, and we sell their program, and sometimes it looks like both because they just don\u2019t know how to express what it is that they sell. I would say my main thing that I offer is copy with strategy.<\/p>\nRob:<\/strong> I started looking a some of the images on your website, and I\u2019m really hungry now. Your website has this total food vibe, and it\u2019s showing off so many of your photography skills in additional to how you help people with copywriting. Let\u2019s talk a little bit more about the typical project for you. When a customer comes to you for help with copywriting, what\u2019s the onboarding process look like? How do you figure out was you\u2019re going to do with them. Just talk about that whole process of getting to know the customer and producing work for them.<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> And you know my process is very organic. It\u2019s not very contrived. I don\u2019t have a lot of documents for people to fill out or anything. But because of that, I spend a lot of time talking with them directly, so that\u2019s a lot of phone calls, a lot of Skype, a lot of note taking on my part. What I\u2019m doing when we have that conversation is I\u2019m not just saying, tell me about your program, tell me about your business, I\u2019m saying, \u201cSo tell me how your husband. And when you guys were in Argentina, what did you think about the culture?\u201d I ask this questions that have nothing to do with their program or business, because I want of hear the actual cadence of their voice.<\/p>\nI want to hear their personality, because to me it\u2019s very important to be able to portray that in their copy. I feel like if you have someone that you\u2019re looking to hire, and let\u2019s say their website is very hyper, and very out there, and very in your face, and then you get them on the phone, and they\u2019re like, \u201cHey, so\u201d, that creates serious mismatch, and when there\u2019s that moment of confusion for the client, they\u2019re not going to get hired. So, I spend most of my time talking to them about stuff that has nothing to do with their business. And then I produce their copy for them, and we have another meeting. If they\u2019re happy, then they go forward and if they\u2019re not, we get a revision, and then that\u2019s that. Like I said, very low-fi.<\/p>\n
Kira:<\/strong> Cool And so it seems like you have a way of, you know, branding comes naturally to you. I mean it\u2019s a big part o what you do as a photographer, and with all of your businesses, so can you just speak to the importance of branding as a copywriter, because there\u2019s so many of us and we can all look the same at different times. We\u2019re all kind of competing for similar jobs, so how do we stand out. I know that\u2019s a question that\u2019s popped into the Club a lot. And from your experience, how have you stood out?<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> Well, the one thing I did … This is just how I\u2019ve always been. When you grow up a nerd you have certain characteristics that are just with you for life, right? And growing up, it was like, well, I\u2019ll never but that cheerleader type, so I\u2019m just going to do what I want to do and people can like it or not like it. So when it come time to make my copywriting website, I know you\u2019re supposed to have photos of like your pretty desk and, I don\u2019t know, a vase full of tulips, or something like that, especially if you\u2019re trying to appeal to a female aesthetic. But I was like, you know what? No, I want to do this differently. I want to do something fun that makes people excited and happy.<\/p>\nSo my photographer and I actually come up with the concept of, I don\u2019t know if you\u2019ve seen it, it\u2019s on, I think my About Page, but the concept of, he\u2019s like, \u201cSo, what is it that you do?\u201d And I said, \u201cOkay, well I take the boring and I make it fun and interesting.\u201d That\u2019s when we come up with the concept of me taking plain donuts and painting them purple. Yeah, and then that concept grew from there. Like, when you\u2019re sitting at your desk, do you want to look at somebody else\u2019s desk, or do you want with look a some delicious treats?<\/p>\n
So, I just mined my existing body of work, and that\u2019s how I come up with the concept that exists right now. But for somebody else, that won\u2019t work. If you try to copy somebody else\u2019s aesthetic, it will absolutely fall flat for you and people will smell it a mile away, right? So, as a copywriter, when to comes time to create your own brand, I would basically, you can make a big Pinterest board, you can make vision board, you can take notes, whatever, but you want to consider your own actual personality. Your image, your experience, what is different about you?<\/p>\n
That\u2019s a great question that I like to ask my clients, too. My copywriting clients, when I\u2019m interviewing them, I say, \u201cWho is your closets competitor and how are you different and better?\u201d And then we focus on that. I don\u2019t think enough people do that. I think so many people just rush to the table, and think, oh, well I offer the same as Joe Blow, so I\u2019m going to make my site the same as their\u2019s and then they they to do stand apart and no one wants to buy from them.<\/p>\n
Rob:<\/strong> So, Misha, you mentioned About Page, which has got this killer photo at the top, but you also mention on there that you are the friendly neighborhood brand store evangelist, and there\u2019s a funny story that we need to ask you about that. So, I\u2019m asking. Tell us the story.<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> Yeah, okay, it\u2019s actually, it\u2019s not that good of a story. I have kind of oversold it, I admit. When I came up with website, I literally jot down and wrote the copy for the entire site and one afternoon. I was stuck on, \u201cwhat do I want to call myself?\u201d because I feel like I\u2019m more than just a copywriter. I feel like when you give yourself just that label of one thing, people don\u2019t really fully understand what it is that bring to the table, so there\u2019s this thing, called the Silicon Valley Title Generator. And I went to a website, and I clicked the button, and that was the first one that came up, and I was like, boom, that\u2019s my title.<\/p>\nRob:<\/strong> It\u2019s like the Stripper name and Hogwarts name, and all those kinds of things, yeah.<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> Yeah, exactly. So, I\u2019m a Brand Story Evangelist. And I was like, this fit perfectly. I\u2019m going to go ahead and take this as a divine message from the universe that I should be a Brand Story Evangelist.<\/p>\nKira:<\/strong> Well, and your Facebook Live videos, you say that you\u2019re the friendly … how do you introduce yourself? You say the friendly neighborhood copywriter? No, when do you say-<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> Your favorite copywriter.<\/p>\nKira:<\/strong> Favorite.<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> Communication strategist, yeah.<\/p>\nKira:<\/strong> I like it though, because you\u2019re consistent. At least every video I\u2019ve seen, you are consistent with your intro, and you really have your Facebook Live down. And I mean, that\u2019s what caught my attention early on with you, because I have not seen many copywriters really use Facebook Live, I mean, definitely some of us dabble in it, but you\u2019re consistent and so, are you going live every single day, at this point?<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> I had a good run of 90 days in a row, where I went live every single day, and then I sort of fell apart a little bit. But I\u2019m coming back, baby, I\u2019m coming back.<\/p>\nKira:<\/strong> With that, there\u2019s a ton of questions, but I think a good place to start for people who have not jumped into the Facebook Live world, do you have any advice on just kind of simplifying it, so it doesn\u2019t seem so daunting and overwhelming to people who have not gone live before?<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> Absolutely. So people, the number one thing that they\u2019re afraid of is looking foolish, I\u2019m guessing. And first of all, just go ahead in let go of that because you might look foolish, oh, well, you can always delete the live. You have to go ahead and mentally lower the stakes for yourself, because the odds that, who is the person you want to impress most in the world? Like, Kira, who do you want to impress more that anybody?<\/p>\nKira:<\/strong> Rob.<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> Okay, what are the odds that Rob is-<\/p>\nRob:<\/strong> So not true.<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> What are the odds that he\u2019s going to be sitting there watching your Facebook Live and watching the entire thing and sit there in judgment of you? The odds are very, very slim, right? If you just get started, and make your first one, I\u2019m gonna tell you right now, it\u2019s probably going to suck, and that\u2019s okay, because you can always delete it. To takes, in my experience … so when I started the whole Facebook Live experiment last year, when Facebook Live came out, I decided I was going to have other people come along on the ride with me.<\/p>\nI started a Facebook group, and we went live every day. It\u2019s actually just a video group, because I didn\u2019t want people to have that hanging over their heads, the live thing. The live thing, some people will get on video, but they won\u2019t go live, and I think it\u2019s because they\u2019re afraid that, I don\u2019t know that anything could happen. Well, like I said, I\u2019ve done over 100 Facebook Live, and not very much happens. Sometimes my dog barks, but beyond that, the roof never caved in, you know what I\u2019m saying?<\/p>\n
So, anyways I noticed a trend. When people got to about 25 Facebook Lives, they were pretty darn good, and that was pretty consistently across the board. And the first one, they were like, \u201cHey, this is so and so …\u201d I created a framework for the people in that group. All you need to do is create your introduction, share a piece of content, and then create a great call to action, and once they have that framework to work from they were able to get better really quickly.<\/p>\n
Rob:<\/strong> Yeah, lets dive into this, because Kira and I have talked several times about, they know, to do more video, whether was do You Tube or Facebook, so obviously, we need to just start doing it, is the first step. But is there an optimal length of video, you know, are their backgrounds that we should but doing, to be doing thing differently? Are there things that we should be doing with copy on the video itself?<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> So, like most things in the copywriting world, the answer is, it depends. And you want to think about the goal of each piece of content. I you just want people to see your face, hear your voice, and get used to you and get to know you, because of course once they know you, they will like they, trust you and pay you. If that\u2019s your only goal, then no, there is no optimal length. My videos are as long as it takes to teach whatever concept I\u2019m teaching that day.<\/p>\nHowever, if you are playing by You Tube\u2019s rules, you want your watch time to be about three minutes, because any longer than that, your viewership falls off, and YouTube starts punishing you, and so you won\u2019t get to rank as much. So, that\u2019s those. In terms of other best practices, I have noticed that my posts with long introductory text, get more response on the post, but the video gets more response on the video, if I just add a sentence or two. Like today, we\u2019re talking about how to raise your rates. Come and listen. Again, it just depends on the goal of each piece of content, and what it you\u2019re trying to accomplish.<\/p>\n
Kira:<\/strong> What drives you crazy, because you\u2019ve watched other people\u2019s Facebook Lives, what kind of drives you crazy because we all do it and it\u2019s just obnoxious, or not professional, or whatever, just something that we can correct and be aware of?<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> Sure, I\u2019m not super-duper interested in being really professional, I think you guys could tell that from the Daily Nest-<\/p>\nKira:<\/strong> Well I was going to say that as I said that, maybe professional it\u2019s the right word because the whole point is that it\u2019s not professional, right? It\u2019s not polished video, it\u2019s like live and rough.<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> Exactly, and that\u2019s part of the beauty of it, is that they can interact with you. It\u2019s live, anything could happen, even though it won\u2019t. So, that\u2019s part of the excitement of Facebook Live But one thing that I really don\u2019t like is when people, you have to understand, every piece of content you put out is made with the intention of establishing a relationship with your audience. You\u2019re and just Facebook Living in a vacuum, and if you are, that\u2019s great, but get a better hobby, right?<\/p>\nWhen you disrespect your audience, and you make your topic like meander, or you start telling a random story that has nothing to do with it and you never come back, that is to me the biggest sin you can … Because how many whacks at the pinata do you think you get with your audience? If they watch two videos and they both are boring, and they don\u2019t get what it is they\u2019re looking for, they\u2019re not coming back for more, right?<\/p>\n
Rob:<\/strong> And that\u2019s probably why a lot of people don\u2019t do it.<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> I think, though, that it\u2019s, of course I can say this because I\u2019m on the other side of having done it, if you just create that small framework. Like, let\u2019s say what\u2019s your favorite topic to talk about, Rob?<\/p>\nRob:<\/strong> Copy, I guess, you know, at least as far as this show goes, copy. I like cycling. A couple of other hobbies, like reading. But let\u2019s say copy.<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> Okay, we\u2019ll say copy. So let\u2019s say you wanted to connect with your audience and educate your audience, because I think they\u2019re only four or five main goals for each piece of content. But let\u2019s say you decided today you wanted to connect and educate on the topic of copy. Well what are the top three things that your audience needs to know, your ideal client needs to know about hiring you for copy, let\u2019s say?<\/p>\nRob:<\/strong> They probably need to know that I\u2019m competent, that I\u2019m going to perform well, and that I\u2019m going to get their customer, so that what we create is going to convert.<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> Perfect, so that is your entire video script. You\u2019ve got your introduction, \u201cHey guys, this is Rob, and I\u2019m the copywriter that XYZ, and today I want to tell you about why I excel at providing you with copy. Here are the three reasons why. All right, thanks so much for checking out this video. Go ahead and like my Facebook page, or share \u2014 you only get one CTA \u2014 share it with people who might need to know an awesome copywriter.\u201d That\u2019s your entire script. When you have got that bare bones written out, stick to it, and then finish your video and get the heck off.<\/p>\nKira:<\/strong> How do you plan out your content, especially when you were doing 90 days in a row? Did you map it out ahead of time, or you just like, the day of, you know, I want talk about this today. I\u2019m just going to jump in and do it.<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> Sometimes I wing it and sometimes I have a goal that I\u2019m working towards. What I do, which to plan my year, I\u2019ve deemed it the big rock method, where I say, okay, I want to host a life get-together in May. I want to opEn my Communication Academy in July, or whatever it is, and I notate these on the calendar, and then I move backwards from there. So, let\u2019s say I was making a class on Facebook Live, I would say, okay, for the two weeks preceding that, I will talk about Facebook, you know, what you can accomplish with Facebook Live, what you can learn in this class for those two weeks. But other than that, yeah, I just wing it. Sometimes I just get mad and then I go on Facebook Live about whatever that made me mad.<\/p>\nRob:<\/strong> And Misha, is it easy to \u2014 I\u2019m asking this because we haven\u2019t done Facebook Live \u2014 but is it easy to say, do a Facebook Live and then transfer that to YouTube, or would you say that they\u2019re really different venues and we ought to be doing slightly different content for both?<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> You can actually do that, and that\u2019s not a problem. You just have to be really smart about your intro and your call to action, because you want the content to appear native. So, write it in such a way that\u2019s not like, \u201cHey, Facebook fans, how are you? Please click like,\u201d because obviously on YouTube … or please follow my page … on YouTube, you would want to say subscribe. You could find a synonym that bridges both then we use that content, repurpose that content.<\/p>\nKira:<\/strong> And what have you found is the impact on your business? Are you getting clients, and you know it\u2019s through Facebook Live? Or are you still just kind of building the community and you\u2019re cool with not necessarily pulling in clients from that channel at this point?<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> No, I get direct clients from Facebook Live. One of my most successful one was, five things I learned at dog training. And I literally just talked about one Call to Action because people won\u2019t, if you give them too many things to do, they won\u2019t pay attention. You want to remain in constant contact. Basically the lessons that I learned at a place called Sit mean Sit, which was the person that I hired to train my dog.<\/p>\nRob:<\/strong> This is the dog that keeps barking in the background? Right?<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> This is, I know, she\u2019s a semi-trained dog of average intelligence. But, yeah, she\u2019s not wearing her collar today, so this is all my fault. This is a me problem, not a [Letton 00:21:25] problem. But anyways, yeah, so I played that video. I tagged the company in it and I have gotten actually quite a few coaching clients, who said, \u201cOh my gosh, you have explained that so well, we want to hire you as communication coach.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cOkay, yes, let\u2019s do it.\u201d<\/p>\nBeyond that, let\u2019s see, what else, what else. I\u2019ve gotten so many … pretty much all of my Facebook page likes are from Facebook Live. I know it\u2019s not a huge metric, to worry about anymore, page likes, because you can advertise way beyond the page like, but that\u2019s still pretty cool to make a video and have people like you because of it, right?<\/p>\n
Rob:<\/strong> Yeah, and I feel like we\u2019re ping-ponging back and forth here with Kira and I, but there\u2019s so much stuff here that I want to learn and that feels really good. If we were going to hire you as a producer, for the Copywriter Club, Facebook Live, put Kira and I on screen to make us look good, aside from the just do it, and scripting us out, anything else that you wd say, \u201cRob, Kira, you guys got to do this.\u201d<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> Prepare for audience interaction and welcome that interaction. A lot of Facebook Live people ignore the comment section, but to me that\u2019s the goal. That\u2019s where all the interaction … Although, I got my first negative comment the other day. It was just the funniest thing.<\/p>\nKira:<\/strong> What?<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> Yes, it was so funny, he said, okay, he said, \u201cWell, if you say it is so, then it most be, huh?\u201d And he called me a d-bag. I was like-<\/p>\nKira:<\/strong> Geeze.<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> Yeah, it\u2019s my Facebook page so, yes, if I say it\u2019s so, yes, it is so.<\/p>\nRob:<\/strong> Interesting.<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> Yeah, and you know what? That\u2019s another thing, I guess, prepare for the negative comments, but don\u2019t really worry about them. That was the first time that a total stranger had ever called me a name, so I feel like an achievement was unlocked that day.<\/p>\nKira:<\/strong> How did you play it off from that comment?<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> Oh, I didn\u2019t even see the comment. I saw it, but I didn\u2019t read it. And then my friend, my business bestie, went total pitbull on him and was like chewing him out, and so I did see it then, and I just laughed. I was like, \u201cThis is hilarous to me, I don\u2019t know you at all, you\u2019re not my ideal client, I have zero care about what it is that you\u2019re saying, but thanks for your opinion.\u201d And then eventually, like, after a half an hour, of laughing at it, I deleted the comment, because you don\u2019t come to my house and poop on my table, you know, I\u2019m not going to leave it there. That was pretty funny.<\/p>\nKira:<\/strong> Well, what type of audience interaction? I know the videos I\u2019ve seen of you, you really are good at welcoming people and not only just saying their name, but you really give them a warm welcome this you\u2019re really good about it. And so what should we do that\u2019s just kind of like, again, welcoming someone into your house, you say hi to them, but I\u2019ve also been on Facebook Live where it can get a little bit obnoxious when the presenter is just so distracted by the comments sections.<\/p>\nRob:<\/strong> Yeah,<\/p>\nKira:<\/strong> Like, what\u2019s the right balance there?<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> I think the saying hi is great, especially and if they make a comment that is salient to the material, that\u2019s really excellent interaction, so you want to praise them for that and keep them coming back for more. But when you\u2019ve got that script, that skeleton written, you can keep coming back to it. Because sometimes people do get distracted and they totally lose the point of what it was they were trying of say. Its happened to me, yeah, keep coming back to your skeleton script, and like I said, just think them for their comments and move on.<\/p>\nI love my people. I hate to say this because it sounds so cheeseball, but I really, truly love and appreciate my audience members, so to me, it\u2019s more that just, you know, \u201cOh hey Amy, oh hey, Christian,\u201d or whatever. It really like a visit from a friend.<\/p>\n
Rob:<\/strong> We\u2019ve got to figure this stuff out, Kira. We\u2019ve got to be showing up in our Facebook group Live.<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> You guy so should. You guys are adorable. Both of you.<\/p>\nKira:<\/strong> Well, I was just thinking, so for our Club, its great because we already have a big of room of people to speak to, so I\u2019m more incentivized to speak in there, but if a copywriter is listening, who maybe hasn\u2019t built out the likes on their Facebook page, maybe they have people …. It just seems like it\u2019s hard to go live to 10 people because you know no one\u2019s … maybe you\u2019ll get one person in there. Or does it not work that way?<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> You can always, when you are live at the time, first of all, a lot of people want that anonymity at the start, so that they can make sure that they\u2019re finally comfortable with it, so it\u2019s actually kind of a good thing if you don\u2019t have a huge audience, because you don\u2019t have a huge audience, because you don\u2019t have a lot of people you can screw up in front of. I\u2019ll talk more about that in a second.<\/p>\nKira:<\/strong> Just your mom. Just your mom.<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> Just your mom, right? And my mom sees me, she\u2019s seen me screw up for 30 something years, so its fine. But you can also share to your personal page and if you\u2019re not using your personal page, if your friends and relatives don\u2019t know that you\u2019re a writer, like what are you even doing, dude? You can share to your personal page, just to increase your audience and then after its over you can boost that post. And that is what I do almost every single time.<\/p>\nRob:<\/strong> And that\u2019s paid advertising, right?<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\nKira:<\/strong> I feel like we need a whole show just about boosting posts and Facebook, because I\u2019m like, \u201cBoosting a post, what is that? I mea I\u2019m aware of it but I also have heard boosting your post doesn\u2019t work. Anyway, I think that\u2019s another tangent that we won\u2019t necessarily go down right now. I would just like to ask you, you know, you also have a really strong brand on other social media channels, not just Facebook Live, so for the copywriter, who gets a bit overwhelmed by all the social media channels and everything we\u2019re supposed to be doing, and how we\u2019re supposed to show up, what would you say to them so that they can really focus and use it strategically, like you have, to get clients, and not just waste their time.<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> Well, thank you, thank you for that compliment embedded in there. I would say, go back to your ideal client exercise, and really work through that. Who is that person? What is their business? Who is it that you want to work with? And if you don\u2019t know the answer to that, you\u2019re gonna wade through a whole lot of crap before you get to good people. So, go to that ideal client exercise and figure out who it is do you want to work with and where do they hang out. L<\/p>\nLike, if it\u2019s a business man who is, I don\u2019t know, lets use a financial analyst. He\u2019s probably not hanging out on Instagram, right? Chances are good, he\u2019s more interested in LinkedIn and possible Twitter. So, those are the avenues that I would concentrate on. Let\u2019s say you really want to attract, I don\u2019t know, someone who sells to home schoolers. Then you might focus on somewhere like Pinterest. Really build out your blog posts and rock Pinterest. Basically, it\u2019s like going fishing. You just have to decide where those fish are and then you go to those fishing holes and keep working until you\u2019re excellent at those fishing holes.<\/p>\n
Rob:<\/strong> Misha, I want to ask, because we tease this in the intro, a question that keeps coming up in the Copywriter Club all the time. We\u2019re shifting gears just a little bit here, but people ask, \u201cHow can I balance writing with I\u2019m about to have a baby or other things are going on in their lives, and you\u2019re a parent. You not only do you do parenting, but you\u2019re a writer, you\u2019re a photographer, you\u2019re doing business coaching. How do you balance it all? What are the tricks that you\u2019re using to get to all done every day.<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> Okay, balance is bullshit. That is my mantra. Balance is bullshit. It\u2019s more like a juggling act, but that\u2019s okay. First of all, if you just realize that that\u2019s how life is. A lot of people feel unhappy because they feel unsettled, like oh my God, my kid screwed up my writing time, now, I got to change it up and I\u2019m so upset. Well, you know what dude, that\u2019s the way that it is. You got to ride the wave as it\u2019s coming to you. You can\u2019t just sit there and ignore them as they pass you by.<\/p>\nAs a parent, I am probably not winning any parental awards, because I make my kids … lets say, summer\u2019s coming up and I know a lot of people, a lot of people who work at home are like, what this I going to do? How this I going to continue to rock my business during the summer? And the answer is, you create a framework for your kids and you expect this to stick with it and it\u2019s the same thing for yourself. Like I make it a habit to get to the gym three times a week. The only way I can do that is if I say this is my habit. When I this picking up and putting down my different business hats, I simply live and die by my calendar, I say no to things regularly, and I\u2019m happy to surf the wave.<\/p>\n
Kira:<\/strong> So, you\u2019re telling me that there\u2019s no easy solution?<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> The easy solution is to stop giving so much of a shit about it. Like, I don\u2019t know, I know there are some people who are so very, very rigid, I think that it\u2019s the most unhappy way to live. I don\u2019t know. Just realize that there is no easy solution, and embrace that. Drink a lot of coffee and then at 5:00 cocktail.<\/p>\nKira:<\/strong> I like it. I can do that.<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> Easy to follow. Sorry Rob.<\/p>\nRob:<\/strong> Yeah, I\u2019ll have a Coke Zero. I can make that work. Yeah. But I love what you\u2019re saying, though, about that. I agree, and in fact, I think Joanna Web, maybe shared that Todd Herman told her balance is for average people and that if you really want something to work out, you\u2019ve got to go out after it, full steam ahead. I you want to be a good parent, you have got to put a ton of time into it. And if you want to be a good writer, you have got to put a ton of time in that and that might mean that there\u2019s not a lot of space for anything else.<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> You know what? That\u2019s a really good point. I don\u2019t really watch very much television. I know people who are like, oh God, did you see Thirteen Reasons Why? No dude, sorry, I\u2019m spending my time working, with my kids, at the gym, or that\u2019s it. And because those are the things that make me happy, and that\u2019s okay. I don\u2019t mind missing out on the stuff I don\u2019t like for the stuff that I love.<\/p>\nKira:<\/strong> No, that\u2019s true. I mean, the sacrifice comes in somewhere. And it could be sometimes that you just don\u2019t really care that much about, like TV shows, or whatever to could be. For some people to could be the gym. Like, it\u2019s not their thing. They don\u2019t get energized there.<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> Exactly.<\/p>\nKira:<\/strong> Okay, so I know we\u2019re going to wrap this conversation but I what to ask you, you have been in the club, you\u2019re active in the conversations, there are a lot of new copywriters that are just getting into the scene, and they have a lot of questions, and I know you\u2019re usually in there helping them. What advice would give them, like that new copywriter, who\u2019s just trying to figure it out. You know, might feel a little bit desperate, and is seeking some guidance. What tip would you give them, based off what you did or maybe what you didn\u2019t do, but you kind of wish you had done?<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> I would probably say, this is the hardest thing to do, but be confident. Be confident in your abilities. If this is something that you really want, and you know, maybe not just your mom has told you you\u2019re good at writing, but other people too, if you\u2019ve actively gotten results, absolutely have the confidence to move forward. If you haven\u2019t ever written a single word of copy, you\u2019re going to have go through that point to get to the confident point. Be confident and fail forward and fail fast.<\/p>\nRob:<\/strong> This has been an awesome interview. We spent some time with you Misha, last week, you know, doing photos and what we saw so far has been a lot of fun. You\u2019ve made even me look good, which is-<\/p>\nKira:<\/strong> You have a great smile.<\/p>\nRob:<\/strong> I think\u2026<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> Tell your wife I said that, because she\u2019s going to get mad.<\/p>\nRob:<\/strong> Yeah, we just did some family photos the other day, with extended family and I was trying my hardest to smile. Hopefully I did okay, but they were looking good. People what to find you for I\u2019m sure more than photography. If they\u2019re looking for you online, how are they going to find you?<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> You can find me at uncommonlygoodgbiz.com or my Facebook page is obviously Facebook.com\/uncommonlygoodgbiz. And that is probably where you can see. If you\u2019re just in love with the sound of my voice, that\u2019s where you want to go, because that\u2019s where I do my Facebook Lives.<\/p>\nRob:<\/strong> And some of us like your pink hair as well, so there\u2019s that.<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> Yeah, that\u2019s always changing. I got to keep my audience coming guessing, I got to keep them entertained. Right?<\/p>\nKira: <\/strong>Yeah and Misha, it was great to meet you in Texas and I think that you\u2019re such a creative person and the reason we wanted to bring you on the show was just because you are, no only are you a great writer, but you\u2019re taking photos and not only just taking photos but they\u2019re branded and their quirky and fun and so, anyway I was so good to meet you in texas and it made the whole trip … you and rob and some of the other copywriters made the whole trip worth it.<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> It was a really good conference and meeting you guys was honestly if you hadn\u2019t been going to CSI, it didn\u2019t have as much charm without you two.<\/p>\nRob:<\/strong> That\u2019s nice of you to say.<\/p>\nKira:<\/strong> This is turning into a love fest.<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> I know right?<\/p>\nKira:<\/strong> Everyone\u2019s like, okay, we\u2019re done, thank you for being a part of the club and being on the show.<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> Thank you guys for allowing me into your club too.<\/p>\nKira:<\/strong> We\u2019re glad you\u2019re there.<\/p>\nMisha:<\/strong> Awesome.<\/p>\nRob:\u00a0<\/strong>Before we end the podcast, we just want to tell you about our sponsor, Airstory. Airstory is an application designed to help you write faster and it does a few things really well. It makes collaborating with others on your team easier. So if you work with clients or other team members on projects, you\u2019ll love the way that you can interact within your project documents.<\/p>\nBut there are two things that we really like about Airstory that you won\u2019t get with Word or Google Docs. The first is the way that it let\u2019s you organize information into cards.<\/p>\n
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