{"id":764,"date":"2017-07-18T14:00:40","date_gmt":"2017-07-18T07:00:40","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/?p=764"},"modified":"2018-01-04T11:32:43","modified_gmt":"2018-01-04T04:32:43","slug":"career-change-expert-jenny-blake","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/career-change-expert-jenny-blake\/","title":{"rendered":"TCC Podcast #41: The Pivot Method for Copywriters with Jenny Blake"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Author, coach and career change expert, Jenny Blake, joins Rob and Kira in\u00a0<em>The Copywriter Club Podcast<\/em> studio this week to talk about why she organizes her book shelf by color : ). We also talk about her book,<em> Pivot: The Only Move that Matters is Your Next One.<\/em> But this isn\u2019t just a pitch for Jenny\u2019s book. She walked us through the process but also talked about:<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0How to figure out your strengths then determine where you want to be a year from now<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0How to scan the horizon for opportunities, people, and skills that might take you to the next level<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0How to experiment with your pivots to eliminate risk and find things that work<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0How to deal with your inner CFO who says, \u201cyou\u2019re out of your mind\u201d to try something new or different<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0The \u201cDo, Drop or Delegate\u201d formula for staying engaged in your work<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0Why you should create scalable streams of income as part of your business, and<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0How to build a platform so you get noticed<\/p>\n<p>If you\u2019re thinking about changing careers to become a copywriter, or want to explore a new niche, or simply want to make sure you\u2019re on the right career track, this episode is a must listen. Click\u00a0the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.<\/p>\n<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_5702\"><!--[if lt IE 9]><script>document.createElement('audio');<\/script><![endif]-->\n<audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-764-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC041.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC041.mp3\">https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC041.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC041.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/?powerpress_pinw=764-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC041.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"TCC041.mp3\">Download<\/a><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/thecopywriterclub.com\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p>\n<h3>The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:<\/h3>\n<p><em>Sponsor:<\/em>\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/www.airstory.co\/club?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com &amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">AirStory<\/a>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/gp\/product\/0762441275\/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=9325&amp;creativeASIN=0762441275&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;tag=brandstory00-20&amp;linkId=585bfb655fb05ddb9bf995428460d528\"><em>Life After College<\/em><\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/gp\/product\/1591848202\/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=9325&amp;creativeASIN=1591848202&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;tag=brandstory00-20&amp;linkId=d701b71045fecd2b5862d6e6053dd3cd\"><em>Pivot<\/em><\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.pivotmethod.com\/toolkit\/?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Pivot Method Tool Kit<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.pivotmethod.com\/momentum?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Momentum<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/actionable.co\/?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Actionable Communications<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.squarespace.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">SquareSpace<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/shecanco.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">She Can Coterie<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/gp\/product\/B00E0DRMTU\/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=9325&amp;creativeASIN=B00E0DRMTU&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;tag=brandstory00-20&amp;linkId=8bd25a37f557151f4bc0559818f3789f\">Powerbars<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/gp\/product\/1591847400\/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=9325&amp;creativeASIN=1591847400&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;tag=brandstory00-20&amp;linkId=fcf5962c78d71b291d66847e2ac6b5e8\"><em>Stand Out <\/em><\/a><em>by Dorie Clark<\/em><br \/>\n<em><a href=\"https:\/\/hbr.org?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Harvard Business Review<\/a><\/em><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.fastcompany.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\"><em>Fast Company<\/em><\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.forbes.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\"><em>Forbes<\/em><\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.huffingtonpost.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\"><em>Huffington Post<\/em><\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/medium.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Medium<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/gp\/product\/0470643471\/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=9325&amp;creativeASIN=0470643471&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;tag=brandstory00-20&amp;linkId=c2694f20ecbe79831240b8ddd9bf8a68\"><em>Book Yourself Solid<\/em><\/a> by Michael Port<br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/davidmoldawer?lang=en\">David Moldawer<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Ramit Sethi<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.marieforleo.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Marie Forleo<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/gp\/product\/0307273601\/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=9325&amp;creativeASIN=0307273601&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;tag=brandstory00-20&amp;linkId=4c688dec203782c5077a1d42fb09dc4d\"><em>Daily Rituals<\/em> <\/a>by Mason Currey<br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.pivotmethod.com\/delegate\">Delegation Ninja<\/a> (use the code TCC to save $100 or just\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/app.ruzuku.com\/courses\/23198\/enroll?coupon_code=TCC\">click here<\/a>)<br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/kirahug.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Kira\u2019s website<\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/kaleighmoore.us11.list-manage.com\/subscribe?u=7bdb50a2eb0d5b0a501cd1bf4&amp;id=9bf46b3e1d\"><br \/>\n<\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/www.brandstoryonline.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Rob\u2019s website<\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/kaleighmoore.us11.list-manage.com\/subscribe?u=7bdb50a2eb0d5b0a501cd1bf4&amp;id=9bf46b3e1d\"><br \/>\n<\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/groups\/thecopywriterclub\/\">The Copywriter Club Facebook Group<\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\"><br \/>\n<\/a>Intro:\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/soundcloud.com\/fauves\/content-for-now\">Content (for now)<\/a><br \/>\nOutro:\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/album\/gravity\/id304219081?i=304219099\">Gravity<\/a>\n<h3>Full Transcript:<\/h3>\n<p><em>The Copywriter Club Podcast<\/em> is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co\/club.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> What if you could hang out with <a href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\">seriously talented copywriters<\/a> and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That\u2019s what Kira and I do every week at <em>The Copywriter Club Podcast<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> You\u2019re invited to join the Club for episode 41, as we chat with author and career strategist Jenny Blake about her Pivot Method and what it means for copywriters and others who might be wondering what\u2019s next, leaving Google to start her own business, dealing with burnout, and whether she really organizes the books on her shelf by color, not subject.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Hey, Kira. Hey, Jenny.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Hello.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jenny:<\/strong> Hey, thank you so much for having me. Yes, indeed, I organize by color, but I will tell you, I know where every book is because the color imprint stays in my mind. It\u2019s really easy to zoom in, like, \u201cOh, yeah, that was a red book, it\u2019s over here.\u201d It\u2019s not as confusing as you might think.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> I think a lot of writers, if they go to your website, they\u2019re going to see the video or the pictures that you\u2019ve got of your bookshelf. That\u2019s one of the first things, I\u2019m like, \u201cOh my gosh, all of the white books are together.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> I know. I love it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> \u201cAll of the green books are together.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jenny:<\/strong> Oh, yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> It makes me laugh.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jenny:<\/strong> The funny thing is I\u2019ve honed this thing over three or four years of living in the same apartment, so I\u2019ll be watching TV and I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, that book needs to move one slot to the left.\u201d What you see, it\u2019s like my bonsai tree. I just get to prune at it every single day. What you don\u2019t see is the back of this Ikea shelf is all the reject books that don\u2019t have a pretty color.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> That is too funny. Jenny, I think a lot of our listeners may not know who you are, have seen your work. You\u2019ve got a fantastic book that we definitely want to talk about, but maybe you could start by just telling us a little bit about your story.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jenny:<\/strong> The best place I like to start is that I felt like I was losing my mind every few years, that I worked at a startup for two years, I took a leave of absence from school. Then I moved over to Google. The career conversation I regret the most is the one I never had, and it was to tell the founder at the startup that I was getting bored and, I didn\u2019t have the language for it at the time, but hitting a plateau or a pivot point. I moved over to Google, and I was at Google five-and-a-half years doing AdWords, began then later coaching and career development. Half way through my time there, I wanted to leave.<\/p>\n<p>I certainly thought something was wrong with me, like, \u201cIf I can\u2019t be happy at Google, I\u2019ll never be happy anywhere. I must be one of those entitled millennials that the media keeps talking about.\u201d But at the same time, while I was there I trained over 1,000 people. I was there as the company grew from 6,000 to 36,000. I saw how many people were struggling with this question of what\u2019s next. I started a blog, the Life After College website, in 2005. That\u2019s ancient in internet dog years at this point. That was my side hustle that, in 2011 when my first book was coming out, I decided to do an unpaid leave, go do a book tour, self-funded book tour, and ultimately made the choice not to go back to Google.<\/p>\n<p>I thought there again, \u201cOkay, this is the hardest career decision I\u2019m going to have to make, but I\u2019ve got to try. I\u2019ll forever regret not going all-in and giving my own business a chance.\u201d And, as you mentioned in the intro, I was burning out. I was doing too much. Google is really intense all day, all week, and then my blog and book on nights and weekends. Then, sure enough, two years into running my own business, once again I was wondering what\u2019s next. I had become known on podcasts as the girl who left things, the girl who left college, the girl who left Google. I felt like I couldn\u2019t escape. Even when I was at Google, when I would tell people I worked there, it was, \u201cWhat\u2019s it like? What\u2019s the culture like? Can you submit my r\u00e9sum\u00e9?\u201d Then, as soon as I left, on all these podcasts, \u201cWhat was Google like? Talk to us about Google.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I felt like, \u201cWho am I? What is next for me? What am I moving toward, not just away from? What can I create a movement around? How can I create a bigger impact?\u201d As I wrestled with those questions, I paused most of my business activities. I was having a personal apocalypse year. I don\u2019t know if either of you have had one of those, where everything that can go wrong will, starting with a breakup pretty much on January 1<sup>st<\/sup>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Oh, man.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jenny:<\/strong> Yeah. Now my business bank account dwindled all the way down to zero, to the point where, as recently as 2014, January, I didn\u2019t know how I was going to pay the rent in two weeks. At that point, the question isn\u2019t the lofty, \u201cWhat would you do if you knew you wouldn\u2019t fail?\u201d but, \u201cWhat do you do when your back is up against the wall?\u201d I had to figure this out. Otherwise, I was going to have to fold my business or move out of New York, and neither of which I wanted to do.<\/p>\n<p>The last few years now have been dedicated to exploring, how do we get better at answering this question, \u201cWhat\u2019s next?\u201d How do we be more resilient in the face of change? What is this movement that\u2019s happening where &#8230; As I mentioned, I thought I was the only one. I thought I was going crazy and I was destined to never be happy. As I started researching Pivot, I found that everyone\u2019s going through this more often. We\u2019re not just granted two times in our life a mid-life crisis and a quarter-life crisis in order to search this existential questioning of who we are and what\u2019s most important. We\u2019re all, especially anybody listening to a podcast like yours, questioning, \u201cAm I learning and growing?\u201d every few years we\u2019re going to be cycling through those questions.<\/p>\n<p>As I worked on the book, I adopted the motto, \u201cIf change is the only constant, let\u2019s get better at it,\u201d and that\u2019s been my focus, is helping us all accept career change as normal, not beat ourselves up over it, and have a process to move through it more easily, whether we\u2019re self-employed or we work for someone else or a combination of both. I\u2019m happy to say that now I\u2019ve been running my business over six years, and in the first four months of this year I\u2019ve earned more than the last three years combined. The things that I\u2019ve been studying and talking about are working.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Wow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jenny:<\/strong> I feel much calmer, even though I still have no clue what\u2019s next, really. I feel so much calmer going through the process.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Wow. There\u2019s a lot we want to dig into here. If we could back up, before Pivot, when you just started your own business and you had left Google, how did you start your own business? What did you do to get it going and to rev up the engine in those early days? I\u2019d also love to hear about what wasn\u2019t working, because you mentioned that your bank account dwindled down. Something was working and something wasn\u2019t working. I\u2019m sure that would be relevant to the new copywriters who are just launching their businesses.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jenny:<\/strong> Well, that\u2019s very Pivoty of you as well, because Pivot is all about focusing on what is working. The biggest mistake I made when I was running my own business was focusing so much on what I didn\u2019t want, what I didn\u2019t know, what I didn\u2019t have. It\u2019s very easy when we\u2019re self-employed to have that fear of, \u201cI don\u2019t want to go broke. Okay, well, I don\u2019t want these nightmare clients. Okay, well, I don\u2019t want this.\u201d None of that moves it forward. It wasn\u2019t until I started to look at what was working. How did I already get clients? What kind of clients did I like the best? What was already bringing in income, like my book, my speaking engagements? Even if I didn\u2019t want to talk about life after college for the rest of my life, I had activities that were working, and now I just needed to shift to them.<\/p>\n<p>There\u2019s the idea of a pivot as well, that it\u2019s not a 180. It\u2019s not like I quit Google to become a full-time yoga teacher, which, I had gone to teacher training, so maybe that wouldn\u2019t have been out of the question, but I was doing coaching and career development at Google, and I left to do coaching and career development on my own.<\/p>\n<p>You asked about getting momentum in those early days. I blogged, and I think now blogging is not the most direct way. If anything, it\u2019s podcasting where more people are hanging out. Less people I find &#8230; I think we\u2019re so over-saturated on the information front. But starting to add value. I shared a lot of free templates on my site in the early days that people passed around. I still have over 30, maybe like 50 now, free templates at pivotmethod.com if you just go \/toolkit. People really gravitated toward those and shared those.<\/p>\n<p>Then I learned over time how to be vulnerable. I used to think that if I\u2019m vulnerable in my writing publicly, nobody is going to want to hire me as their coach. I found the exact opposite to be true, that the more vulnerable posts I would write, the more people would inquire and want to work with me, and the more I told my story. Then it was doing things in my life that people found compelling. When I left Google or when I went to go work and live in Bali for a month, I thought, \u201cNo one\u2019s going to want to work me. They\u2019re going to think that I\u2019m not focused or not there for them,\u201d and those were the times I got the most clients in the history of my business.<\/p>\n<p>I think the other mistake that I see a lot of new businesses make that I made is it\u2019s really tricky if you\u2019re only doing project-based billing. This is getting into nitty gritty, but especially for writers, freelancers, coaches, when I was charging by the project, it was really hard to know who was paying me when, and where the rent money was coming from. One of the biggest shifts I made that was such a game changer was moving to a monthly retainer, where I would bill people on the first of every month. Even for copywriters, you could think about, even if it\u2019s a retainer of how many hours a month a client is getting and you estimate it out.<\/p>\n<p>I would say that those retainers, they\u2019re good until canceled, because I wanted to set the expectation that just because this one project or this one transition is done doesn\u2019t mean we have to stop working together. Every month we can pick another thing on your plate and strategize around that. Especially for copywriters, it\u2019s a shift, but what if you were to go on a retainer, even if it\u2019s a ghostwriting book writing project? But when that\u2019s done, you ask, \u201cOkay, what\u2019s next? You need to write articles to promote that book or spruce up your social media profiles.\u201d You can be proactively pitching how to fill that month or work with your clients.<\/p>\n<p>But what I loved about that was I could now get 5 or 10 clients on a monthly retainer and know exactly how much I was earning every month, and that really helped stabilize. I call it in the book the cashflow cow, where I really knew that my baseline was taken care of every month and I wasn\u2019t panicked about trying to chase down big paychecks.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Jenny, you mentioned that you moved from one related thing to another, and I think that\u2019s a really big point that you make in your book. Can we talk about the Pivot Method? The starting point is, how do you actually make a pivot? What are the steps that you would want to go through in order to shift from what you\u2019re doing now or what you were doing then to what you want to do next?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jenny:<\/strong> Sure, yeah. The analogy that came to me that was really helpful is that of a basketball player. I describe this in the book, that when a basketball player stops dribbling, one foot stays firmly planted. That\u2019s their plant foot. It\u2019s their foundation and their source of strength and stability. Then the pivot foot can look for passing options around the court. When someone is at a pivot point &#8230; By the way, not all pivots have to be huge and dramatic, like quitting your job. Anybody listening can do pivots, use this method as, \u201cHow do I want to grow in the next year?\u201d or, \u201cWhere do I want to take my business? Where do I want to take this project?\u201d This process is a way to just map growth. It doesn\u2019t have to be always such a dramatic change.<\/p>\n<p>In order to do that and to grow from your source of strength, the first stage is plant, and that\u2019s what is working best right now, what is already working. What are your strengths, your values, your ninja super powers that people come to you for advice on most often? Another critical part of the plant stage is, what does success look like a year from now? That, even if you don\u2019t know the specifics of how you\u2019re going to get there \u2014 in fact, you shouldn\u2019t know at this point or worry about it \u2014 how do you want to feel on a day-to-day basis? How much do you want to be earning in your business or your side hustle? What types of clients would you love to be working with? What kind of impact do you want to make? What else would be happening in your life or business that would just have you jumping out of bed with glee every day? If someone wrote you a glowing thank-you note or you got an award or a big media site profile, what would it be about?<\/p>\n<p>Starting to craft that vision of, what would be really exciting? And just one year from now, because I believe that too much farther out and none of us can predict the future. That\u2019s why the subtitle of the book is The Only Move That Matters is Your Next One. Don\u2019t worry about the five-year plan.<\/p>\n<p>Once you have where you are now, where you want to end up generally, that\u2019s your plant stage. Those are your brackets for your pivot. Now, the second stage, scan, can be so much more efficient and effective because it ties into your strengths and where you want to end up. Scanning is about people, skills, and projects that are related to your strengths and your one-year vision that are compelling.<\/p>\n<p>People. Who is doing what you want to do? Who do you admire? Who might you be able to reach out to? Who are some frientors that you could partner with? I love that you two are doing this podcast together, that, Kira and Rob, you thought, \u201cOkay, hey, here\u2019s a person I would love to work with and collaborate with.\u201d By the way, then, people: Bringing people onto your podcast is another way to make those connections.<\/p>\n<p>Skills. How do you want to grow? In order to get to that one-year vision, what skills do you need? How do you want to learn? Even personal classes that might be fun to take. Even pursuing skills or curiosities that seem like they have nothing to do with your business. What would be energizing to pursue?<\/p>\n<p>Then, the third stage is where it gets fun. It\u2019s called pilot. This is like passing the ball around the court. Piloting is about running small experiments. It\u2019s about taking the pressure off of having the answer and actually removing all expectation to have the answer and instead running a series of small experiments that help you test what I call the three Es: Do I enjoy this new area? Can I become an expert at it? Is there room to expand in the market?<\/p>\n<p>For somebody, maybe someone listening, maybe one of you thinks, \u201cYou know what? That monthly retainer thing sounds good.\u201d Well, great. Before you tell all your clients you\u2019re shifting, why don\u2019t you set up your one next client on a monthly retainer? That would be a pilot. It\u2019s a small experiment to see, \u201cDo I even like this? Does this work?\u201d That way, you don\u2019t panic yourself by thinking that you need to flip your whole business over all at once. Even taking on another type of copywriting project than you might be used to, that would be a pilot. Changing the way that you work, that would be a pilot. Experimenting with your client onboarding process, that could be a pilot. There are so many small things that you can do that, again, the more that they tie into what you come up with in the plant and scan stage, the better. You can repeat that cycle \u2014 plant, scan, pilot \u2014 over and over and over and be perfectly happy.<\/p>\n<p>Then the fourth stage, launch, is every now and then there\u2019s a bigger pull-the-trigger moment, like for me quitting Google, for someone else maybe finally hitting publish \u2014 excuse me \u2014 on their website or sending an email to friends and family like, \u201cHey, I\u2019m open for business. Send me your clients.\u201d The launch moments are exciting, but they\u2019re no longer a leap in the dark that it might be without following this process.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Jenny, how can we approach this with the right mindset? Because I think you\u2019ve alluded to this already, but there\u2019s some strange emotions around Pivot for me personally, because I feel like when I am pivoting or thinking of what I want to do next, I almost feel guilty because it makes me feel like I\u2019m distracted or unfocused and I don\u2019t know what I want, when I know pivoting is good, and you\u2019ve proved that, but I feel like I need the right mindset to go into it and make it work, and there\u2019s a lot of fear. How do I deal with that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jenny:<\/strong> I\u2019m so glad you brought up the fear and the inner dialogue that we often have with ourselves. I know when I was thinking of leaving Google, I have this raging inner CFO that was like, \u201cYou\u2019re out of your mind. You\u2019re totally messing this up. You have a great salary, bonuses, three meals a day.\u201d Oddly enough, my mom had the exact personification of this inner voice that I had, so my mom was then saying to me in the real world all of the things I was afraid of.<\/p>\n<p>What\u2019s so funny is I went ahead and I wrote a business plan for myself and for my inner CFO. I really didn\u2019t plan to show it anybody but my inner CFO. That gave me the confidence to say, \u201cOkay, Mom, I know that this isn\u2019t what you would do, but I\u2019m going to do this anyway, and just give me a chance.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>What\u2019s funny is that when I was going to edit the book, this is five years later, and I wanted to put in a little tidbit about how, well, now that my mom has seen me generally successful, it\u2019s been five years, now, has she come around? I was going to tell this nice story in the book of how she just came around, and my mom\u2019s like, she was like, \u201cNo, I still don\u2019t agree. I still don\u2019t agree with when and how you left Google.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I just had to give this little tangent that sometimes we have inner fears, sometimes it\u2019s people we love that are afraid for us, and they\u2019re not always going to be onboard, that our family wants to keep us safe and well-fed, and so does our inner CFO. But we often have values around freedom and growth and impact. It\u2019s about reconciling the two.<\/p>\n<p>In your case, Kira, I would say it\u2019s reframing, because I know what you mean, and career change in particular can be very scary because it seems to threaten our livelihood, our ability to provide for ourselves and our families. That\u2019s where really small next steps can be helpful, because we just show ourselves, like, \u201cOh, hey, this little thing is working. Let me pour a little more juice and attention into it. Okay. Oh, that\u2019s working again. Let me keep going.\u201d It\u2019s very incremental.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s also looking at, what\u2019s more important than the fear? Yes, I\u2019m afraid. Yeah, I feel a little uncommitted if I\u2019m looking in a new direction, but what\u2019s more important to me than that is growing my business or is expanding my reach, is making a bigger impact. That has always helped me.<\/p>\n<p>Then the last thing I\u2019ll say is that I do not expect my fear to go away. There\u2019s a lot of really masculine language in our culture around, \u201cSmash your fear, destroy your fear, crush your fear, annihilate your fear.\u201d That never worked for me. I\u2019ve lately &#8230; I want to write actually a little short book on this. There\u2019s even talk of slaying dragons, your fear dragons. I call it domesticating dragons, that it\u2019s like, \u201cHey, dragon. How are you? Thanks for coming.\u201d Our fear just wants to keep us safe. It\u2019s just trying to protect us. If you have a dialogue, like, \u201cOkay, what are you afraid of? Cool. Have a seat.\u201d We\u2019re going to keep going, but there\u2019s no need for it to go away.<\/p>\n<p>That took a lot of the personal beating myself up away, because, I don\u2019t know, maybe for some business people or authors they don\u2019t have as much fear and insecurity and uncertainty, but I certainly did. The only thing that\u2019s had to go down is not expecting it to go away. Now when those things show up, I take it as a good sign, I\u2019m on the right track, I must be stretching myself, and keep going.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Jenny, when I look back at my career, I can see different times when I knew that I should be thinking about making a change. I was unhappy. Or, others may be thinking, \u201cI\u2019ve just lost a job, so it\u2019s obvious I need to do something.\u201d But what about when we hit plateaus and maybe we\u2019re in the situation where we ought to be starting to think about that next change or the pivot, but we maybe don\u2019t see it because we\u2019re stuck in that plateau? How can we identify those kinds of times so that we can always be pivoting to whatever is going to be better for us next?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jenny:<\/strong> Just as you said, it\u2019s an inner feeling. The plateau often starts as a whisper, just a tiny whisper, like, \u201cPsst, I think there\u2019s more out there for you.\u201d If we don\u2019t pay attention, it starts to get increasingly more uncomfortable. Sometimes our bodies start making the case for change or we get sick more often or headaches or we just cannot bring ourselves to do a certain task. Sometimes that\u2019s a sign that we just need rest. It\u2019s not that, \u201cOh, we need to pivot dramatically,\u201d but maybe it\u2019s just taking a step back and giving ourselves permission to rest and recalibrate. Then, at other times it\u2019s, okay, just even acknowledging, \u201cI am at a pivot point,\u201d or, \u201cI\u2019m at a plateau,\u201d that can be empowering to just notice it without having to fix it.<\/p>\n<p>Then what I find helpful is, when I start to feel a plateau, I ask myself &#8230; One of my mottoes while writing the book was, \u201cLet it be easy, let it be fun.\u201d If I\u2019m hitting a wall with something, how can I shift this to let it be easy, let it be fun? Maybe you change the way you\u2019re working. In some cases, it might just mean that you need to raise your rates so that you don\u2019t resent the work and it actually feels exciting and worth it. Maybe it\u2019s changing the type of client. There\u2019s also something that would help lighten things up. I think it\u2019s nice to ask those questions of what that would be.<\/p>\n<p>I also like to go through \u201cdo, drop, or delegate\u201d. Of everything on my plate, especially when I\u2019m at a plateau or I just really need to make a change, what do I know that I want to do for sure? What can I drop altogether? Then, what can I delegate? How can I bring on help to do work that &#8230; I believe in doing work that only I can do and then really constantly trying to ask, how can I delegate the rest?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> I love that, \u201cdo, drop, or delegate.\u201d I definitely need to do that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Drop and delegate especially, right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Yeah, right. I\u2019ve got \u201cdo\u201d down. I want to hear more about your pivots, because you\u2019ve had many pivots, and I\u2019m really thinking about you shared that in the first few months of this year you made more than you had in the previous years in your business. What was the pivot you made to go from that moment when you weren\u2019t sure if you could pay your rent to this thriving business that you currently have?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jenny:<\/strong> I gave two webinars on this that &#8230; If anyone wants to join, I have a private community called Momentum. I\u2019m really not trying to be this pitchy about it, but these webinars are in there. They\u2019re both an hour. I talked about multiple streams of solopreneur income, that really the first five years of my business was about developing multiple streams of income. The problem was that I was still the bottleneck. For five years, if I got sick, if I was traveling, if I needed time off just for emotional apocalypse year reasons, the business ground to a halt. I was the only one that could do the coaching. I was the only one that could do the speaking.<\/p>\n<p>The next webinar that I did this year is called Scalable Streams of Solopreneur Income. My big goal, in tandem while writing Pivot &#8230; I worked on Pivot for three years, and probably for the latter two years I spent equal attention to building scalable streams of income at the same time while writing the book so that when the book came out I would not make the same mistake that I did with my first one. That mistake was that when Life After College came out, I was the only person they could hire, and I really didn\u2019t have much else for people to do, other than hire me. When Pivot came out, I had corporate speaking and workshops. Google ended up licensing Pivot as global career development training, so we are still working together to this day. That surprised me. Came out of complete left field.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Wow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jenny:<\/strong> But it\u2019s a testament to Pivot continuing. Google and I continue to run in parallel, which is pretty amazing.<\/p>\n<p>Then I did &#8230; Kira, we both worked with Actionable Conversations. I created an actionable what I call a workshop in a box that companies can run without me. Then, on the side for individuals, I created Momentum, this private community for side hustlers and solopreneurs where I do calls twice a month, Q&amp;A calls, and then they get access to my full course library and a private Facebook group.<\/p>\n<p>Momentum was the way that, okay, if someone finishes the book and they want to keep in touch, they can join Momentum. It\u2019s now $125 a quarter, so it\u2019s not for what everybody\u2019s getting. Like I\u2019m doing an eight-week delegation ninja course coming up. It\u2019s free for people who are in that. I try and throw in the kitchen sink, because, this is another solopreneur tip, I hated launching products. I hated writing sales copy. I probably need someone who\u2019s listening to this podcast to come help out. I wanted to only ever sell one thing, and that was Momentum. I didn\u2019t want to keep having to go through the whole rigmarole of launching course after course after course. That model of an online business just didn\u2019t work for me.<\/p>\n<p>Then, finally, the last scalable thing that I did was training six Pivot coaches, so while I\u2019m on the road speaking and I have very little time to take on regular clients, these six Pivot coaches are amazing, some of my favorite people, and people can hire and work with them for a two-session jump start.<\/p>\n<p>All of those things I just described, I was very strategic about building them before the book came out. But at the same time, I had no clue which of them were going to work or take off. I have pilots that didn\u2019t go anywhere. Even I mentioned Actionable Conversations, the workshop in a box, I thought companies would be snapping this thing up. I thought they were going to be, like couldn\u2019t wait to go facilitate Pivot on their own, and have yet to have someone really implement that in a material way, whereas the Google thing came out of nowhere.<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s what I mean about pilots. I think of them now, to switch metaphors, as race horses at the Kentucky Derby. Your job is just to line up all these different sources of income, and ideally some scalable, even if not everything is, and then lift the starting gates and see which ones take off.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> I love thinking about this scalable streams of income and that, yes, you did have multiple streams of income, but you were the bottleneck. I think that happens to a lot of copywriters. Most of us start off working on client projects, and there\u2019s a lot of burnout involved. I think many of us struggle to create scalable streams of income, but it is possible for copywriters. Do you have any advice or maybe a baby step or two to help copywriters think a little bit bigger and think about their business in terms of scalable streams of income, or even something they can do if they want to move in that direction they can do this month to get started?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jenny:<\/strong> Yeah. The first relief valve that I ever experienced in my business &#8230; This is very funny, but I was dating a guy for about a month. Then I got a breakup and a job offer in the same email.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Wow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> What?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jenny:<\/strong> Yeah. Because I couldn\u2019t help but, while we were going on dates, he was starting a business, and I was like, \u201cOh, don\u2019t hire a web designer for 15 grand. Just use Squarespace. Oh, maybe don\u2019t do that, do this.\u201d I was constantly throwing out tips. I couldn\u2019t resist. I knew maybe it wasn\u2019t the feminine thing to do, I was going to put myself in the friend zone, which, sure enough, I put myself in the friend\/business zone, for a combination of other reasons that don\u2019t have to do with that. But, bottom line, I couldn\u2019t help but &#8230; I was so interested in his business and what he was doing and giving all these tips.<\/p>\n<p>When he sent that email, it was like, \u201cHey, do you want to manage our social media for &#8230; You\u2019re so good at this stuff. Do you want to manage our social media?\u201d What I did was pitched them a role they didn\u2019t even know they needed. I said, \u201cYes, but what you really need is a director of operations.\u201d I created a three-page proposal of my role, what it would include. It included social media, but it was much more strategic. It was, \u201cI will help you set a strategy for community building, marketing, social media, outreach, grant writing, all the things.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>This was for a hydroponic urban farming company, so growing basil out of two shipping containers in Red Hook, Brooklyn. I didn\u2019t know the first thing about growing basil, but I did know how to set up all the technical systems that they didn\u2019t, and these are two guys who were former Wall Street traders. They\u2019re in the book. We had a call. By the way, they wanted to pay me $1,500 a month, and I said, \u201c$3,000 a month, and I\u2019m already giving you a bargain, because my one-on-one coaching &#8230; \u201c They were getting a good deal compared to my other rates. I pitched the role, I doubled the price, and they accepted.<\/p>\n<p>Then, what\u2019s more interesting and where I think copywriters can experiment, is I hired my assistant, Marisol, to deliver 80% of what the guys were hiring me for. I set the strategy, and I delegated much of the work to her. I had Marisol writing the tweets, drafting social media strategy, implementing that strategy, but I was still providing the strategic direction and I was double-checking and looking over everything. If you\u2019re going to sub-contract, either the client doesn\u2019t need to know, or they can. In my case, I told the guys, \u201cI work with Marisol on a lot of this stuff.\u201d They didn\u2019t need to know what the breakdown, the ratio was. That was the first thing that allowed me to earn a chunk of income and not be the one doing all the work.<\/p>\n<p>I would encourage all of you listening to look at, \u201cIf I were to hire someone,\u201d what are the aspects that you can delegate, even if it\u2019s things like client onboarding, invoicing, social media strategy? It doesn\u2019t mean that you\u2019re not still going to oversee it, approve it, edit it, and do things like that, but how can you give yourself some breathing room?<\/p>\n<p>Even before you think about who to hire and how to delegate to them, one thing I really recommend in terms of delegation and scaling yourself is start to track all the things that you do when you work with a client, because when you think about it in an abstract way, it might be like, \u201cOh my God, there\u2019s nothing. I can\u2019t let go of anything.\u201d But when you really look at what tasks are involved over the course of a month or several months or a whole project, there\u2019s more than you think.<\/p>\n<p>Once you start delegating small easy stuff, then you can take bigger risks with what &#8230; I don\u2019t know about you, Kira and Rob, but, oh man, do I have to pry my little perfectionist fingers off of so many things in my business that it\u2019s not easy to want to delegate things, but I\u2019ve just learned that it\u2019s the best way forward.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> I totally agree with that. In fact, that\u2019s why I haven\u2019t delegated, because every time you rely on other people, you think, \u201cAre they doing it as well as I would do it?\u201d But you\u2019re right, if they can do it even half as well but at a significantly lower cost or they can help you do something different that\u2019s more interesting or more profitable, I definitely need to take that advice a lot more.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jenny:<\/strong> Yeah, and not to underestimate the power of delegating personal stuff. I work with a company called She Can Coterie, and I\u2019ve worked with them for years. I delegate everything from buying plane tickets, researching things, buying purchases online, disputing things on my credit card statement, or renegotiating a phone bill. I hire a cleaning person to come once every three weeks. There is so much that I do, that it\u2019s just that those are all things I don\u2019t need to do. Maybe if someone is not yet ready to let go of very important client work, maybe there\u2019s other stuff in life that you can take off of your plate so that it at least frees up all those tiny tedious tasks that you don\u2019t have to be the one to do.<\/p>\n<p>When I talk to people, they\u2019re often intimated, like, \u201cWell, I can\u2019t afford that.\u201d My first VA, I started out paying $200 a month. I was broke. I was going broke, and that was the last thing. I would rather eat PowerBars for dinner than give up my VA for how much she was crucial to my life and business. Everybody\u2019s different, but it doesn\u2019t have to break the bank in order to get going in this direction.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> All right. I\u2019ve got work to do there.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> I was going to interrupt before Rob asked a question just to ask, what was the website you used for the personal tasks?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jenny:<\/strong> Oh, yeah. It\u2019s called shecancoterie.com. I\u2019m going to be sharing &#8230; It\u2019s just fun. I\u2019m building this delegation ninja course right now, so I\u2019ll have to get you guys in there. We can give a discount to everybody listening. We can put that in the show notes. I\u2019m happy to give you guys a special offer if any of you want to join.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Awesome. We will definitely promote that. In fact, I want to talk a little bit more about your thinking around systems, but before we do that, one of the things that strikes me, Jenny, that you\u2019ve done really well throughout your career, starting with Life After College and that book and then what you\u2019ve done with Pivot and what you\u2019ve done with your own community, is that you\u2019ve built a killer platform that you can now build anything on top of. I think that\u2019s something that a lot of our listeners would love to know more about.<\/p>\n<p>What are the things that people can do to build their own platform for finding clients or for creating products, just getting attention and getting out there? Do you have some suggestions, things that we could be doing?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jenny:<\/strong> Even if you don\u2019t call it blogging, I think one of the most effective things, I refer to it as public original thinking. Being original and figuring out how you can carve out a niche as an expert is I think important. My friend, Dorie Clark, is the pro at this. Her book is <em>Stand Out<\/em>. It\u2019s five different methods to establish yourself as an expert. One of them is curating interviews, just like you\u2019re doing here. Her next book comes out in October. It\u2019s called <em>Monetize<\/em>. I actually can\u2019t wait. I think it\u2019s such an important complement to, first you stand out and you learn how to build a breakthrough idea, then you learn how to monetize it.<\/p>\n<p>But Dorie is really good at blogging publicly. When I say that, meaning she writes for sites like <em>Harvard Business Review<\/em>, and she has grown her list tremendously. She\u2019s so much better at it than I am, because I don\u2019t ever really care what my numbers are. Dorie writes for sites like HBR, and then she gets her exact target clients now signing up for her newsletter and part of her ecosystem, and they\u2019re the ones hiring her to speak and signing up for her courses. I think having a personal blog has actually gone away a little bit in favor of blogging on bigger platform sites that already have an audience like HBR or <em>Fast Company<\/em> or <em>Forbes<\/em>, <em>Huffington Post<\/em>, even re-posting your stuff on Medium.<\/p>\n<p>Then, original and vulnerable. Copywriting is a good example. So is coaching. There are a ton of coaches out there. Being vulnerable and telling your true, real story, that\u2019s what\u2019s going to attract people more than just saying, \u201cI\u2019m the best copywriter out there,\u201d because they want to build some connection. Being original, part of that is the niche of, who do you love to work with? I read a book called Book Yourself Solid when I was first starting out, by Michael Port, and it\u2019s all about finding your red carpet clients and how you\u2019re going to provide them red carpet services. Who do you love working with? Be specific. Don\u2019t be afraid to be specific.<\/p>\n<p>I would post language on my site, in the beginning it was just like, \u201cI like working with young professionals. Sign up here. I\u2019ll help you feel more fulfilled.\u201d Okay. Then, later, for example when I was launching Momentum, I would write things like, \u201cAre you smart, generous, creative, engaging, positive?\u201d I put all these adjectives of the people that-<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Yes. Yes I am.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jenny:<\/strong> Great. Well, come on in. I was like, \u201cYou know what? I don\u2019t want someone here if they don\u2019t self-identify as generous,\u201d and I wasn\u2019t afraid to put that in the copy describing who\u2019s going to be the best fit. I\u2019m just saying that now because even though it\u2019s not directly platform building, I do think that what it means is that, even if you have a smaller platform, they\u2019re more exactly who you want listening and in your sphere.<\/p>\n<p>The other thing I strive to do is be helpful. When I write my weekly newsletter, I\u2019m always sharing one thing I\u2019m reading, something I\u2019m watching, and a tool or two that I\u2019ve found around the web. I want people to, even if they\u2019re filtering all their newsletters to some other folder, which I know so many of us are doing now these days, I want them, when they see mine, to go, like, \u201cI always learn something new in that one, so I\u2019m going to read it.\u201d My friend, David Moldawer, I don\u2019t know if either of you know him. He\u2019s a great writing coach and editor. His newsletters are hilarious. They\u2019re so funny and they\u2019re so smart. His edge is not that he\u2019s providing the latest app that you need to use, like I would do. His is just so funny. It\u2019s like I can\u2019t wait to read his newsletter while I\u2019m working.<\/p>\n<p>I think, think about, this goes back to the Pivot Method, what are your strengths as a writer and a person? What are your quirks? How can you include them all and not think that you have to just put on one face for your business and another one in your personal life? I\u2019ve had the most success when I blend those things.<\/p>\n<p>Then, actually let me just &#8230; I know I\u2019m &#8230; I have so much to say on all these topics. The last thing I\u2019ll add is\u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Keep going.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Yeah, keep going.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jenny:<\/strong> Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> We\u2019re going to book you for episode two in the next hour.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jenny:<\/strong> Thank you. It\u2019s like, sorry to &#8230; You got me going on all the things that I really learned the hard way over the last 10 years. I learned that as a small business, I really did not like selling small things to many people. That is the online marketer model, is, \u201cLet me sell small courses to as many people as I can, and I\u2019m going to build a Marie Forleo sized business, even though her course is $2,000.\u201d It didn\u2019t work for me. I tried it over and over. I really did, and it never worked. I always dreaded my to-do lists around those kinds of things.<\/p>\n<p>What I started to do was offer a ton of value to my community for free. Momentum is really low investment for what I throw in there and offer to that. Beyond that, my platform is everyone in my community, they\u2019re welcome to come hang out, but I stopped expecting things and being disappointed when I would launch things and they wouldn\u2019t sell as well as I wanted. Instead, I shifted to, how can I land corporate clients that fund the rest?<\/p>\n<p>The thing that took the pressure off of platform building and then trying to squeeze a living out of my platform was, and I had a friend say this to me, \u201cJV, you need to be a line item in somebody\u2019s budget.\u201d Instead of coaching solopreneurs on their last pennies, which I was doing for a period \u2014 and it\u2019s rewarding but a lot of pressure for both of us \u2014 if Google hires me or if companies hire me &#8230; Think about, for all of you running a copywriting business, what would it look like to have one client at 10 grand a month, one business or two clients at five grand a month, so that no matter what you\u2019re doing on platform side, your bills are paid?<\/p>\n<p>Often, getting those clients is a little different. Yes, it involves public original thinking and posting, but it\u2019s often going to come from your network, from being proactive about pitching projects, and things like that. That\u2019s the last thing I\u2019ll say on the platform.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> No, I agree 100%. I think that\u2019s the stage I\u2019m in now as well. It\u2019s just a couple of clients, it\u2019s dependable, but it gives me the freedom to grow a platform and to focus time elsewhere. But it takes a while to get there. It takes a lot of work to get to that point, but it is possible.<\/p>\n<p>I want to pivot, Jenny, and ask you about burnout. I\u2019d like to hear about what happened after you launched your book. I have never launched a book, so I can only imagine how tiring and challenging it is, also exciting. What did you do after the launch was over? How do you figure out where to go after something as big as that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jenny:<\/strong> Yeah. I was surprised. I call it the void. Once you launch a big project, sometimes there\u2019s this void that opens up, this \u201cwhat\u2019s next?\u201d limbo where you are truly in between. I thought that was going to come. I knew I would be tired. After launching the book I did a big two-week travel promotion push, did a ton of podcasts in the months leading up. I had no idea how much rest I was really going to need. It consumed me. I did what I could, and then I thought I would rest for a week, maybe two, maximum a month. The book launched in September. By January, I did a silent meditation retreat. Came home, was like, \u201cOkay, time to get to work. It\u2019s the new year.\u201d Still didn\u2019t want to do anything. I was doing the minimum. I was keeping up with clients and going to speaking engagements. I could not bring myself to do much of anything else.<\/p>\n<p>In fact, I had to write the afterward that\u2019s going to come out with the paperback edition of Pivot in September. I had six months to think about this thing. It was due March 1<sup>st<\/sup>. I still had to ask for an extension. Then April came, and I struggled with that thing every day. Every day was a struggle just to write a four-page afterward. I don\u2019t know how I wrote the whole book, because I just didn\u2019t have any mojo. The writing mojo just wasn\u2019t back yet. It\u2019s been a journey of giving myself time to just &#8230; I don\u2019t know. I couldn\u2019t believe just the effort that when into it, and then how little of that mojo I have on the other side for writing. I\u2019m creating the delegation course, but thankfully that\u2019s so different than writing a book or even an article. I\u2019m just letting that be okay for now. I do like talking about it to let people know this does happen, and I think it\u2019s a natural part of the creative process.<\/p>\n<p>Then the other post-launch thing that\u2019s been really interesting is just all these pilots that I\u2019ve described. For three years I was the woman writing a book called Pivot, and once it launched it was this weird feeling of, like, well, who am I now? Yes, I wrote a book called Pivot, but I\u2019m still facing the question, what\u2019s next? People are already asking, \u201cWell, what\u2019s your next book?\u201d Someone told me at a party, they\u2019re like, \u201cYou know, the sweet spot is two years between books.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cWhat?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jenny:<\/strong> I know. I\u2019m like, \u201cI can\u2019t force myself.\u201d There\u2019s no way I can start on something right now, period. I\u2019m just letting these business pilots, I\u2019m observing them. I have fun with them. That\u2019s actually the thing I love, and the speaking. I pilot with my rates. I\u2019m experimenting. That\u2019s where I\u2019m at now, and then just letting creative ideas incubate, but taking the pressure off to do anything about them.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Jenny, we are starting to run out of time, but I want to ask about how you went about even creating the Pivot Method. Did that come out of your coaching or was it really by sitting down and writing the book and going through it specifically? If I wanted to do something similar or if another writer wanted to do something similar, what kind of steps would we want to think through the things that we know in order to create that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jenny:<\/strong> Yeah, it is a combination of the 10 years of coaching that I\u2019ve done, career coaching and studying careers, and my own personal experience, my own struggles. I think so much of IP can come from, what have been your biggest challenges and how did you overcome them? Because when you are the one in the trenches, you have a front-row seat to how to solve it, whereas someone else who was maybe more resilient in their career and about asking and figuring out what\u2019s next, or who maybe just doesn\u2019t make a lot of changes at all, they wouldn\u2019t even have the impetus to write this book because it\u2019s not on their radar as a challenge, whereas for me I felt like the sky was falling every two years, and so I\u2019m like, \u201cAh, I have to fix this.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>My strength is in systems and organization and creating order from chaos, so it worked for me to create a method for a messy thing called change. That\u2019s in my line of what I like to do. I would recommend thinking about what your unique challenges are, how you\u2019ve uniquely solved them, how your brain works. Dorie\u2019s Stand Out book would be great, because maybe you want to curate a book, like Daily Rituals by Mason Currey. He researched all these great writers and what their morning rituals were. Or maybe you want to come up with a method, like I did, a pivot method or some method or thing, a process. Dorie gives the example of the stages of grief. Maybe you\u2019re doing original research. It really has to hook into your strengths.<\/p>\n<p>Then, yeah, it\u2019s I think testing it and seeing, \u201cDoes this work?\u201d so that by the time you are writing about it, you have examples and you know that it\u2019s road tested and you have the confidence to then say, \u201cThis thing works. I\u2019ve tried it,\u201d or, if you\u2019re curating interviews, developing that unique flavor of what it is that you offer.<\/p>\n<p>I would say to start with those things, and if you really are interested in building expertise, the Stand Out book is a great place to start.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Jenny, this has been an incredible hour. I feel like there\u2019s so much in here, and if anything it\u2019s so nice just to know we\u2019re not the only one. It\u2019s good to know that other people are feeling the same way and dealing with the same challenges and forced to pivot as well. Thank you for your time. Let us know where we can find you online.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jenny:<\/strong> Sure. Thank you so much for having me. It\u2019s so fun. Thanks for letting me jam about all this stuff. Really excited to be here. I love what the two of you are up to. Thank you, and big thanks to everybody for listening. If you want more, there\u2019s a ton of free resources at pivotmethod.com\/toolkit. I would invite anyone who\u2019s interested, I do Q&amp;A calls every two weeks in Momentum, and then delegation ninja is coming right up, so I\u2019ll send you guys a link and a discount code if anyone\u2019s interested in that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> That\u2019s awesome. Let me just jump in and say Jenny\u2019s book is incredible. I think that anybody who is working with clients or working on projects, writers, would benefit immensely, even if you\u2019re not going through a career change, just because it helps you think through the process of how do you identify what\u2019s next or what the possibilities are. I cannot recommend it highly enough. We\u2019ll link to it in the show notes. Definitely it\u2019s a book worth reading. It\u2019s awesome.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jenny:<\/strong> Thank you so much, Rob. Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Thanks, Jenny.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Thanks, Jenny.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Author, coach and career change expert, Jenny Blake, joins Rob and Kira in\u00a0The Copywriter Club Podcast studio this week to talk about why she organizes her book shelf by color [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_coblocks_attr":"","_coblocks_dimensions":"","_coblocks_responsive_height":"","_coblocks_accordion_ie_support":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[2],"tags":[57,3],"class_list":["post-764","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-podcast","tag-jenny-blake","tag-podcast"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v26.7 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>TCC Podcast #41: The Pivot Method for Copywriters with Jenny Blake - 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