{"id":792,"date":"2017-08-01T16:24:41","date_gmt":"2017-08-01T09:24:41","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/?p=792"},"modified":"2018-01-04T11:27:00","modified_gmt":"2018-01-04T04:27:00","slug":"email-copywriter-big-jason-henderson","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/email-copywriter-big-jason-henderson\/","title":{"rendered":"TCC Podcast #43: Email Copywriting with Big Jason Henderson"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Former professional basketball player and current email copywriter, Big Jason Henderson, joins Rob and Kira for the 43rd episode of\u00a0<em>The Copywriter Club Podcast<\/em>. Jason shares how he went from Australian basketball star to highly paid email copywriter and in the process talks about:<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0the too-easy-to-believe advice for writing great emails<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0how he keeps his emails personal by writing to \u201cone\u201d person<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0the recommended number of links that should go in every email (jk)<br \/>\n\u2022 the tools he uses to track clicks and revenue<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0his go-to writing formula for emails<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0what it means to sell the click vs. sell the product<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0which is the better motivator\u2014the carrot or the stick<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0why there\u2019s no such thing as an email expert, and<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0how he manages stress and overwork (when he doesn\u2019t sleep for two days)<\/p>\n<p>Another eye-opening episode packed with lots of lessons, tactics and strategies you can use in your own copywriting business. Click\u00a0the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.<\/p>\n<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_3907\"><!--[if lt IE 9]><script>document.createElement('audio');<\/script><![endif]-->\n<audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-792-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC043.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC043.mp3\">https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC043.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC043.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new 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href=\"http:\/\/www.airstory.co\/club?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com &amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">AirStory<\/a>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.meclabs.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">MECLabs<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/marketingsherpa.com\/summit2018?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Marketing Sherpa Email Summit<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.thegaryhalbertletter.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Gary Halbert<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/people\/Caleb-O-Dowd\/100011204769433\">Caleb O Dowd<\/a><br \/>\nScott Haines<br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.revolutiongolf.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Revolution Golf<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/clicky.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Clicky<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.emailresponsewarrior.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Email Response Warrior Course<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.makepeacetotalpackage.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Clayton Makepeace<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.flintmcglaughlin.com\/index.php\/about?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Dr. Flint McGlaughlin<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/tcc-podcast-27-tepsii\/\">Tepsii<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.armandmorin.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Arman Morin Seminar<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/gkic.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">GKIC<\/a> (Dan Kennedy\u2019s events)<br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.digitalmarketer.com\/author\/ryan-deiss\/?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Ryan Deiss<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/russellbrunson.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Russel Brunson<\/a><br \/>\nTony Flores<br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/simplewritingsystem.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">John Carlton\u2019s Simple Writing System<\/a><br \/>\nSamuel Markowitz<br \/>\nAmit Suneja<br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.ufc.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">UFC<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/parris-lampropoulos-96531630\/\">Parris Lampropolous<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/davidldeutsch.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">David Deutsch<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/shortcutcopywritingsecrets.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Shortcutcopywritingsecrets.com<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/tim.blog?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Tim Ferris<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/kirahug.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Kira\u2019s website<\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/kaleighmoore.us11.list-manage.com\/subscribe?u=7bdb50a2eb0d5b0a501cd1bf4&amp;id=9bf46b3e1d\"><br \/>\n<\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/www.brandstoryonline.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Rob\u2019s website<\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/kaleighmoore.us11.list-manage.com\/subscribe?u=7bdb50a2eb0d5b0a501cd1bf4&amp;id=9bf46b3e1d\"><br \/>\n<\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/groups\/thecopywriterclub\/\">The Copywriter Club Facebook Group<\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\"><br \/>\n<\/a>Intro:\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/soundcloud.com\/fauves\/content-for-now\">Content (for now)<\/a><br \/>\nOutro:\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/album\/gravity\/id304219081?i=304219099\">Gravity<\/a>\n<h3>Full Transcript:<\/h3>\n<p><em>The Copywriter Club Podcast<\/em> is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co\/club.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> What if you can hang out with seriously talented copy writers and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work, that\u2019s what Kira and I do every week and <em>The Copywriter Club Podcast<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> You\u2019re invited to join the club for episode 43 as we chat with email copywriter big Jason Henderson about what he has learned about sending more than a billion emails, creating high performance email funnels, the things you should do with email that the experts tell you not to do, and why your value proposition is the most important element for increasing conversation.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Hi Kira. Hi Jason.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> Hi, good to be here.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Great to have you Jason.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> Thanks for having me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Jason, I think we really want to start with your story, but before we get into that, I got to know how big are you?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> I\u2019m only about 6&#8217;11&#8221;.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Okay, so not that big then.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Not that big. That\u2019s nothing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Yeah, why don\u2019t we start with your story. You\u2019re famous for email, tell us how you got started as an email copywriter?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> In 1996, I was playing professional basketball in Australia, and it was really laid back so I had plenty of free time and the local universities let me go into their computer labs, so I was just going around and I started with Acl and local businesses, and I started doing email and e-commerce back then. Little did I know, that e-commerce was going to be huge, I should have stuck with it.<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, I just started with that and I became &#8230; Have you heard of the about.com brand?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> So back then, they were the mining company and I was the exercise guy. So they basically worked with us to drive as much traffic as possible, so they were teaching us about building email lists, writing articles, attracting free traffic, and for email all they said was, \u201cYou know it\u2019s like having a one on one conversation, so if you can do that, then you can write an email.\u201d And that\u2019s basically all I knew. I was like, \u201cYeah, I can do that.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I think that\u2019s an advantage for me starting way back then in 1996 because all I had was that one simple statement, it\u2019s like having a one on one conversation, versus a lot of people today, they\u2019re met with a lot of BS and like don\u2019t do this, you can\u2019t do that, and this doesn\u2019t work when basically people are projecting their failures and what they can\u2019t do on everybody else. Like, if I can\u2019t do it, no one can. But I didn\u2019t have that, so I was using personal images, and writing very personal conversational emails. And then in 2006, I came upon MECLABS and MarketingSherpa and that was huge because I\u2019d heard a lot of IM crowd talking about them but when I went and visited MECLABS and MarketingSherpa, I found they weren\u2019t really practicing what they preached.<\/p>\n<p>So this last April, was my 12<sup>th<\/sup> year going to the MECLABS MarketingSherpa email summit in Las Vegas. I\u2019ve spoken there twice, I\u2019ve taken their email messaging value proposition development, landing page optimization, and online testing certifications probably about eight times each. So that\u2019s where I\u2019ve gotten a lot of my email knowledge, email ideas, and just ability to come into scenarios where companies have done the same promo over and over again for years and it\u2019s stagnating. It\u2019s kind of like an old control that\u2019s getting a little stale, it\u2019s not doing like it used to, and I\u2019ve been able to come in and with different lenses be able to see what other email marketers can\u2019t see.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Okay. So let\u2019s start with the question, some of the copywriters are probably wondering what are most of us doing wrong when it comes to writing an email?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> You\u2019re focusing more on the words. You\u2019re focusing on being an email copywriter and not a salesman in print, I would say. Gary Halbert used to say all the time that it\u2019s about what you say, not how you say it. I look at some of my old emails where people are just besides themselves about the results and just the personal conversational tone, and I look back and I\u2019m just, wow that\u2019s &#8230; And as far as like a prose and like \u201cwriter\u201d it\u2019s not very good. I was just interviewing [inaudible 00:04:15] one of Gary Halbert\u2019s best prot\u00e9g\u00e9s and he was remarking about Scott Haines who Gary Halbert called his best student, and he\u2019s like, \u201cMan, I look at Scott\u2019s letters and they\u2019re not impressive, it\u2019s not pretty. But he would go for the jugular, very simple plain english, fourth grade level.\u201d So I think that\u2019s the biggest key right there.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> I think a lot of people will say about Gary\u2019s writing too because a lot of the letters that he wrote, they\u2019re not real pretty, they\u2019re very basic and very plain, but well-thought out.<\/p>\n<p>Scott, one of the things that you mentioned is that people don\u2019t understand that you\u2019re trying to be a salesman in print in your emails. And then you also said that it\u2019s a one on one conversation. And I think a lot of people might be thinking, how do I square those. We don\u2019t often think of sales as that kind of an intimate conversation especially when you\u2019re pitching to large group. What do you think about that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> What I do is I just project them on mine, there is someone across from me depending on the niche. Sometimes it\u2019s this guy with a beard and he is a redneck, and he\u2019s got a beer in his hand. Other times it\u2019s the guy with the really nice custom made silk suit, and we\u2019re at a boardroom. And other times I\u2019m in the kitchen, I\u2019m sitting on a bar stool with my elbows on a counter and there is a middle aged woman talking to me as she is cooking lunch.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> So Jason, to back up, before you have these images, what does your process look like before you can even envision these people that you\u2019re writing to? Before you even start the writing portion, what does that really research stage look like for you?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> It\u2019s similar to long period sales letters, you\u2019re interviewing the product expert with the owner. I have find that if there\u2019s partners, that it\u2019s the silent partner that usually has the best info. The lower level employees have really good info sometimes. And one of the first things I always ask is, I want to know if someone replies to an email, where does it go, and I want to see them. If they say, \u201cOkay, we can get you the last week\u2019s.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cNo, I want to see everything.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, it\u2019s either a help desk or it\u2019s a regular email with the inbox. I always want to see it, I find that\u2019s some of the best gold right there. And depending on the niche and the products personal blogs, depending on if it\u2019s health related, or something where there is a lot of pain and suffering. Like, I was doing some work for how to prot\u00e9g\u00e9 and anxiety, and I found some amazing personal blogs where it\u2019s just wailing and gnashing their teeth and talking about their issues. Typically, those types of blogs tend to gravitate towards other people with the same problems. So you got not only the blog writer writing about some amazing language and just writing emails for you, but then you got people replying and commenting they have the same problem. So it\u2019s just amazing to get a lot of fear, pain, anxiety, and issues that you can use for your emails.<\/p>\n<p>And then also I find depending on the niche is professional articles because a lot of the time you have these professional writers for either offline publications that are online, or just strictly online publications. And they\u2019ve done a ton of research, they\u2019ve written some amazing articles &#8230; Like I was writing for Survival and this writer basically went out and interviewed this survival proper fundamentalist and he was saying all kinds of crazy stuff like, you know it\u2019s a fact that after seven days both women and children will turn to prostitution.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> What? I can\u2019t wait to find a link for that in the show.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> So it\u2019s just like gold like stuff like that and really good language even if you\u2019re not familiar with the market. Revolution golf, like I\u2019ve never golfed before and I\u2019ve never taken a lesson, I used to hate watching it and then revolution golf came calling and my MECLABS background helped with that because they wanted someone that was really good with data. I find a lot of email marketers are not good with data. They don\u2019t know what really works the best. So yeah, a lot of golf magazines, watching golf, talking to people that golf, stuff like that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> I\u2019m curious Jason, especially the beginning of your career as an email copywriter, how did you find your clients? What is because you were working in-house, that you were networking, or did people just come to you because they knew you were an expert?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> I would say it was events. I went to a lot of events &#8230; And you have to admit I have kind of a built in advantage over most people, I kind of stand out. And so I\u2019m 6\u201911\u201d, I was wearing custom made silk suits where most people were in jeans or shorts, and so I got a lot of people coming up to me asking what I did because you know standing out, and I then I would just tell them and they would be like, \u201cOh, I can use.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Very cool. So you were talking about how one of the things that you do differently is that you understand data, and I assume that includes tracking and that sort of thing. And this is something you know as I\u2019ve sent out emails, I don\u2019t do a lot of emailing for clients but for myself, I\u2019m totally curious if you can walk us through what that means, what it looks like, and how you follow up and track and have become an expert in that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> At the minimum, it\u2019s very simple. It\u2019s basically, if you\u2019ve ever used Google analytics UTM code, it\u2019s the exact same thing. Whatever link you are using in your email, you\u2019re just attaching a UTM code and you\u2019re &#8230; What I like to do, is I like to put for the term I like to put the subject line but just makes it easier in the tracking report to have that subject line in there. And then I will put the call of action, I\u2019ll put which email it is, I mean, if it\u2019s in a series of emails. And here is the most important thing, which I think is a huge problem for most email marketers. Is I\u2019ll put whether it\u2019s a text link or an image link, and I\u2019ll say which numbered link it is. So if there\u2019s three links in the email, I\u2019ll do one, two, and three. So then you get a lot of data like you can see &#8230; You know, I\u2019ve seen a lot of BS about, like three links is the optimal number of links, no it\u2019s not. Not if you\u2019re actually tracking and you see is like, huh.<\/p>\n<p>So I\u2019m putting a link every time after a paragraph or so in the email and it\u2019s getting a lot of clicks, which doesn\u2019t surprise me that\u2019s just natural because people just aren\u2019t attracted to that blue underline link. But if you actually use Google analytics you can see like, wow, I\u2019m getting way more clicks on this top link but hardly any sales. The people that are reading the whole email, they\u2019re converting the highest. And I find that over and over again, niche after niche because I think people assume that if someone is a really targeted prospect, they want to leave right away. And I don\u2019t really agree with them. I\u2019m like, if they\u2019re really the targeted prospect, then they\u2019re not going to have any problem reading your whole email.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> So that\u2019s interesting. So you say that there\u2019s not an optimal number of links, would you recommend for a lot of people to hold the link to the bottom or is there a reason to stack your links throughout? And I guess another question, as you are tracking this because you\u2019re using the UTM code, you\u2019re generally doing this in analytics I\u2019m assuming, but are there other tracking methods that you\u2019re using as well?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> I use clicky.com because [inaudible 00:11:28] Google analytics has changed but the last time I checked it doesn\u2019t do real time revenue tracking. So especially when you\u2019re doing split testing, it\u2019s really cool to have clicky, which does real time revenue, so I can see exactly how much money is being made from doing a split test, which email is bringing in the most amount of money and then I can send off the winning email to the rest. So clicky is good. And then yeah, you just have to make sure that you\u2019ve got either clicky or Google analytics revenue tracking set up on your thank you page.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> For copywriter who are listening and maybe the tracking, this is all a little bit much for them but they want to learn about it, what do you recommend or what courses or training programs do you recommend for people who really want to understand how to do everything you just shared and provide more value for their clients?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> I have a course at emailresponsewarrior.com but I mean, literally, you can just go to Google and search for a URL or a UTM code. And Google analytics they provide a tool where actually it will build the link for you. You just enter in what you want for each one like [chun 00:12:33] and source and then you just click a button and it puts it out for you. So those are two options right there.<\/p>\n<p>And another thing, this is really good for if you\u2019re writing a lot of emails for clients because it depends on your deal, like if you have a flat or commission-based or just strictly commission-based, this helps a lot for actually knowing what difference you\u2019ve made versus relying on the client to say like, oh, it\u2019s pretty good but not difference, whereas, you have this actually proof. One example is, I had a client say, what I just said, it\u2019s like, \u201cYeah, it was pretty good, I don\u2019t know how much difference you made, but you know, good job.\u201d And I looked at the reports and said, \u201cYeah, we actually made over $200,000, and our agreement is 10%.\u201d They were like, \u201cAll right.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> That sounds like a very good project.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Okay, so I want to back up again, and we were talking about your research and then sitting down with this housewife and really thinking through your email, do you use frameworks or certain frameworks as your go to when you sit down and you\u2019re staring at that blank page?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> I don\u2019t. If I\u2019ve used anything, it would be basically be the typical [ada 00:13:43]. But I just really focus on what I need to say to get the click. And depending on &#8230; If it\u2019s at a fully promotion, depends on who you\u2019re writing for. Like if I was promoting [inaudible 00:13:56] sales letter for this copywriting course, I would be definitely be selling the click. I won\u2019t be focusing on selling the product. But some people, they are really good people, they have really good products but they\u2019re not the greatest copywriters and sometimes you do have to do a little more selling in the email. So it kinds of depends on that. If it\u2019s a series, obviously when agency towards the end of the email, that plays a factor in it. I find that typically, last second emails plain text works the best. Very simple, like you have get this or it goes away. But yeah [ada 00:14:30] is typically my go to, if anything, typically I\u2019m just, what do I need to say to get the click.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> So let\u2019s talk about that. What is the difference between selling the click and selling the product? What does that look like in an email?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> Okay, let me give you an example. So for revolution golf, I wrote an email that got the highest opens, the highest clicks, not the highest amount of sales because it was a low price product, but it was basically reach par fives into&#8230; That\u2019s not a go to, is if I\u2019m doing a really sure sell the click email, it\u2019s sometimes the easiest thing to do is do a Gary Halbert if then. So I basically said, \u201cif you want to reach par fives and two without changing your current swing, this could be the most important product you\u2019ve ever seen. Click here to reach par fives and two.\u201d And that\u2019s basically 38 words or something like that in total. And it was like 166,000 open, 77,000 clicks.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> And that takes you to a landing page where you are selling the product?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> Right. And in this case, it would have done way better. Like I have a lot of people even including Scott Haines before he passed, reviewed this email, and they could not anything to it. And we all theorized why it didn\u2019t do more sales, and was because the sales letter was more generic for a generic product. I found this hook buried in one bullet, that was the only way the landing page address there was just one bullet. And I told my client, we know we need to do a custom landing page for this hook. And they didn\u2019t have the bandwidth to do it.<\/p>\n<p>I think that\u2019s another important factor is when you can have little control of the landing page as well and have a little more consistency from the email to the landing page you going to see a lot of higher conversions.<\/p>\n<p>So that was a really short sell the click email versus I wrote in self defense for the last year, and here is another bonus is self defense is typically male, like 90% are more. And I was writing for my client\u2019s biggest partner &#8230; I was writing the emails for my client and for their biggest partner for a big webinar and a sale, and I wrote a story about a woman, so obviously the owner, my client, and the partner was like, \u201cWhat the heck are you doing? Our target is men.\u201d And I said, \u201cYes, but all the men have wives, so trust me, you got to test this.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>And so basically, it\u2019s a story about a woman who is really prepared it, used the image, a real image she that she actually had her gun in her pantyhose, and she send us a picture with her dress hiked up just a little bit and her handgun in pantyhose, it was an amazing picture. I put it at the top of the email kind of like a Gary Halbert grabber, and I told the story about how she was in a public parking lot, a home improvement store, it was daylight, she had a service dog and she had a husband that was a former state trooper, so she was highly trained. And she still got attacked from behind and she was able &#8230; This is just a summary, she was able to basically knock the man to the ground, bruise his throat, and break his knee cap. And he was screaming for the police.<\/p>\n<p>Other than one urgency email, I wrote this before the urgency started, which is people say all kind of stuff about, oh, this email works great, or this is the way you should write emails and if you look, typically they start with urgency. That is just a side thing is that urgency plays a huge factor and kind of over rides things. It got the most clicks and the most sales out of all the emails before the urgency started. And it was a huge hit. And then my clients started using in Facebook ads, in content network, and it worked really well. And so basically, that\u2019s an example where you\u2019re using a really good story where you\u2019re actually selling the product.<\/p>\n<p>When I visioned, I was talking to that guy, that guy who is probably been in the service, is a redneck, he likes guns, he\u2019s drinking beer, and I just was talking to him, hey, just because you love guns and you typically don\u2019t do to places where there is no gun zones, you can\u2019t be with your wife all the time. And it doesn\u2019t matter if you don\u2019t let her go out at night, a late night at ATM, you never know what\u2019s going to happen, this is a crazy world. So that\u2019s what I was talking.<\/p>\n<p>So yeah, that email was basically me saying, you have to have this is you want to protect your wife.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> So Jason, when you\u2019re writing emails and you\u2019ve identified that target customer, how much are you thinking about the psychological triggers that you need to pull or the human behaviors that you need to make happen? As you think through the process, what is that look like, what\u2019s going on in your brain as you\u2019re figuring out what needs to be said?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> Big time, like the woman in the home improvement lot, it\u2019s basically fear. Something that can happen to your wife. One good example of this is a PPC a paid traffic management company, they\u2019ve been doing a paid Facebook ad for a webinar to get more clients. And that conversion people but they heard about me in the MECLAB stuff, so okay, we can\u2019t really get any improvement on this, can you take a look at this. And based on my research, I felt that it\u2019s the whole carrot versus the stick, what type of the person is the prospect.<\/p>\n<p>And based on my research and my interviews, the first thing that I noticed was that the Facebook ad and the webinar opting page and the follow up emails to get them on the webinar and the webinar itself was all carrot based. And based on my research I said, \u201cI don\u2019t think that\u2019s really the psychological trigger that\u2019s going to get the biggest bank for the buck here, I think you going to see a big improvement if you test more stick-based strategy.\u201d And so I told them to test the Facebook ad on how much they could lose.<\/p>\n<p>And the one key question that I asked that got me some specific numbers is, Okay, so your target prospect give me an estimate of what you think they\u2019re losing by not using your services, whether it\u2019s running their PPC ads themselves or using one of your competitors, what would you say? And he gave me that number and I used that. And we did the first test on the Facebook Ad &#8230; And here\u2019s another one, they only want to test the headline, and I said, no. That\u2019s another thing you learn from MECLAB is that you don\u2019t need to be testing this small little increments. It\u2019s called a radical redesign, you test everything.<\/p>\n<p>And so they wanted to just test the headline, and I said no, we\u2019re not testing the headline because think about if we go fear-based in the headline and then the rest of it is carrot based, it\u2019s not congruent. You got to test everything. And you can come back and test little things later on but if you get a 400% increase in click through rate or sales, then who cares who what did it, you can find that out later.<\/p>\n<p>So they finally agreed to test everything, the headline, the body copy, and the called action in the ad, and boom, it was a 27% increase in click through rate. And I said, okay, now we\u2019re going to take that and we\u2019re going to apply it on the opting page, I told them what to say on the opting page. Then myself, I\u2019m the one that redid all the emails, again fear-based, and then I went through the webinar again. And again this is important, if you just change all the emails, and the landing pages, and the webinar, and all the rest of the collaterals in congruent were inconsistent with that, you\u2019re going to see a huge decrease in conversion.<\/p>\n<p>So they let me change everything. I changed the emails, the opting page, and the webinar itself, and the follow up emails all to fear-based and it shot through the roof across the whole spectrum.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> What are some other misconceptions that copywriters have about writing emails, especially new copywriters, where maybe we get really hooked on writing a certain style that we learned or achieving a certain length? We feel like it has to be long because people are paying us to write it, so we can\u2019t write a short email because we\u2019re getting paid, which doesn\u2019t make sense. What else are we doing or have you seen new copywriters doing their emails that is incorrect?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> I see a lot of copycats, they buy a course and so and so writes an email a certain way, and that\u2019s all the way they\u2019ll write. And they limit themselves. Like, well, so and so writes plain text emails and they make a lot of money, and I\u2019m saying like how much money are they leaving on the table. So you can\u2019t limit yourself and can\u2019t blindly follow people because most people don\u2019t have any data, so you don\u2019t know how well they\u2019re working.<\/p>\n<p>Back to the whole data thing, a lot of people don\u2019t really know the email that\u2019s working the best, what type of email works the best. Another big problem is this whole, well, how much money did you make this month and did you make more? Okay, then great. But I\u2019m just like, why would you &#8230; It\u2019s the whole 80\/20 principle. Why would you just throw a crap against the wall and not know what works the best, and keep doing everything even if it\u2019s possible that only 20% of what you\u2019re doing is bringing in the most amount of money. So again, just blindly copying people, not knowing what works the best and just limiting yourself.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> I want to ask about a type of email that I\u2019ve started seeing coming into my email box more and more, and that is the sales page as email. I\u2019m seeing this a lot in financial emails especially. But it\u2019s basically, instead of selling the click to the landing page, they\u2019re actually throwing the whole landing page in the email and selling the product. What do you think about that approach and they\u2019re segments that that works better in your experience?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> I\u2019ve seen that before, and again, I don\u2019t know how well it works. So I won\u2019t be able to comment on that, I think it\u2019s possible it could work depending on the right list but that\u2019s all I can say.<\/p>\n<p>Again, it depends on the data because putting in an entire sales page in an email probably because the email is going to be so big it could land into a lot of spam folders, but it depends, if it gets through enough targeted people it might increase in sales. But you never know if they\u2019re actually split testing that or they\u2019re just like, let\u2019s try it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> When you\u2019re sitting down with a new client and you\u2019re packaging a project, what are you thinking through to determine how many emails should go on a sequence during a launch period?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> A lot.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> That\u2019s a really helpful number.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> You basically got to sit down and plan it all out and you got to take into account &#8230; This is another thing I see people miss, is the follow up emails because you\u2019re going to see a huge amount of increase in not only sales but click throughs and response to emails when you\u2019re doing follow ups. So what I\u2019m talking about is like you send it first out in the morning early and then later in the afternoon maybe you change the subject line and you leave the email as is, and you follow up to people that haven\u2019t clicked through. So I always put that in my quote. Now you got your early bird bonus emails, you got your follow up once they sign up, and then you\u2019ve got your launch emails, and then you\u2019re follow up launch emails to people who don\u2019t click or open, and then you got your customer emails, that\u2019s another big thing that I think a lot of people miss.<\/p>\n<p>So I try to tell my clients is that, hey, once the sale is done it\u2019s not over, you want to reduce refunds, you want people to consume the product, you want them to be happy, you want to continue building a relationship, so I always factor that in that they need to have a customer stick sequence.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Jason, we like to ask people about money. And we know you\u2019re sort of at the top of the game so you might be a bit of an outlier. But what does a typical project engagement look like to you from a financial standpoint? What are charging to engage with the customer and if you can break that down on a per email, that\u2019s awesome. But I\u2019m guessing that it varies quite a bit.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> Yeah, I\u2019m kind of out of per email game now, I don\u2019t do that anymore. It\u2019s more per project. Typically it\u2019s a lot of times I\u2019m doing $1,000 per hour, so typically I\u2019ll do a one to three to five hour initial consultation. And then it\u2019s either like, okay, this is awesome, we have the bandwidth, we have the manpower that can actually follow this, or holy crap, this is awesome, we need you to do it, so what can we do there.<\/p>\n<p>And then, from there it\u2019s typically a flat fee plus a percentage. And that kind of depends, if they\u2019re like really in the game and they have a big [inaudible 00:27:14] and they can make X amount of dollars just by putting a one line email, sometimes it is a percentage over their average of their last three months.<\/p>\n<p>I recently did this for a client and they were averaging 300,000 per launch, and I said, \u201cWell, that\u2019s 300,000 using myself that you\u2019re still using from my last project.\u201d So there is that. What we did came to an agreement was 10% of everything over 200,000.<\/p>\n<p>So that\u2019s typically a nice big flat fee and the flat fee is just always got to assume you\u2019re going to screwed on the percentage, and I always insist on using a tracking either clicky or Google analytics or both and access to the data. If it\u2019s a longterm, sometimes I\u2019ve done like 10 to 15K per month plus. And here\u2019s another thing, I found the sweet spot for percentages when it\u2019s consistent and they have a big [inaudible 00:28:13] and lots of promotions is 5%. I found that 10% or anything higher than that, the contracts end some than later because as Gary Halbert says, our clients suck and it doesn\u2019t matter how much money you\u2019re making them, they write that check every and they\u2019re just like, oh, man, what if I can just do this myself how much money we\u2019d be saving yadi yadi yada.<\/p>\n<p>So I found that my longest contracts have been at the 5%. And they\u2019ve always been big clients with lots of promotion, so it\u2019s worked out well as long as I have that descent flat rate.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> And when you\u2019re determining that flat rate, are you really just sitting down and estimating based on your experience how long this will take you for this project given the $1,000 per hour rate?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> No, usually I send that $1,000 rate through the window. It depends on, do they do daily emails, are they setting an affiliate promo every single day, if they\u2019re not, are they doing two promos a month? I just figure how much work it\u2019s going to be and how much potential money I can make on that percentage.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> What does your initial consultation look like, you mentioned it\u2019s a couple of hours, but how are you position it and providing value in that, and then also extracting what you need to determine if it\u2019s even a good fit for you?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> Oh, yeah, I\u2019m jut asking for all the data. I want access to the email service provider. I want see any data they have. I want to see their opting pages. I want to see their entire funnel &#8230; Again, and sometimes you have to educate them because a lot of people come to me and it\u2019s just all about, \u201cFix our emails.\u201d And I\u2019m like, \u201cWow, it\u2019s not just about your email.\u201d So like what\u2019s the frame that they\u2019re coming in on. And it\u2019s not the opting pages, like the paid traffic management company, you got to look at the paid traffic ads a lot of time to see what\u2019s the psychological framework that they\u2019re coming into your funnel, are you going to blindly generate crap leads? So I got to analyze all that. So that\u2019s for the paid ads, opting page, if possible access to all the past emails, the entire funnel pages. I take that and we do the call and just for information on what they\u2019ve being doing and the strategies that they\u2019ve employed and what\u2019s their main goals.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019ve learned to get all the data before the call, but that\u2019s it because if you talk to them too much, they kind of like take advantage, they want to get a lot of stuff done before the call. And my time I valuable, so I kind of insist now that, hey, just give me your data so I have it with me sitting here I front of me and we\u2019ll look it over when we get on the call.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Got you. This is more of a personal question for me, I have been charging per email and I\u2019ve raised that rate a bit, should I change to pa er project when it comes to email after you have been doing for a little bit or does that make more sense?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> Are you just writing emails and that\u2019s it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Sometimes I\u2019m also writing a sales page. Usually we\u2019ll have the sales page write and then I\u2019ll have the email write.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> I mean, that\u2019s just me, I don\u2019t like the per email anymore. So yeah, I tend to think what\u2019s the value of writing this email, it\u2019s more about how much potential money it can make. So yeah, that\u2019s basically my answer.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> So Jason, if someone was to say that they want to be the next big Jason Henderson, they want to be the next email expert, starting from scratch, what would you recommend that they do? Other than maybe adding 11 inches to their height as I would need to do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> They should use bunny rabbits in their emails. Well, first of all I would recommend not become an \u201cexpert\u201d as doctor [inaudible 00:31:57] MECLAB liked to say, there are really no email experts, there is only experienced email marketers and expert testers. Yeah, I would definitely recommend becoming a specialist. Even if you do write sales letters, I typically don\u2019t, I can work with existing sales letters and change them up for different promotions, but it\u2019s really not my specialty. But if you can specialize in email and become known for that, then I think you\u2019re going to be able to make a lot more money and command higher fees.<\/p>\n<p>But yeah, instead of becoming an expert, become an experienced email marketer, know the data, know what works best, and stand out from the crowd.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> I love the idea about standing out, and yes, you have advantage in height but one of our previous guests [inaudible 00:32:46] mentioned that she stands out through her fashion and she wears a bun. And so I think we can all figure out how to standout. I\u2019d like to know which conferences you typically attend, or you\u2019ve attended in the past where you found the best clients?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> This is back in the day, do you remember that [inaudible 00:33:05] seminar?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> No, I\u2019m not familiar with that one.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> Yeah, he doesn\u2019t do seminars anymore but that\u2019s the ones that we went to the JKIC, Dan Kennedy events?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> If you deal with more corporate clients, then MECLABS MarketingSherpa email every year in Vegas is huge for that. When I spoke I got a lot of people coming up to me and I\u2019m just like that, I\u2019m not really interested, I focus more on entrepreneurs and small businesses, not really the corporate crowd. Not to say that they\u2019re not entrepreneurs and small businesses up the summit but it\u2019s probably 80% more corporate.<\/p>\n<p>So yeah, JKIC, I would say Brian Dices event, and Russell Branson\u2019s event, those two probably.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Nice. Both of those guys are incredibly smart marketers.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> Yeah. I haven\u2019t been to Russell\u2019s, but I have been to Brian Dice\u2019s. I went with a few Halbert prot\u00e9g\u00e9s, and we basically went into half of one session the whole time, and we were networking the whole time. So yeah, it\u2019s really good for networking.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> So you\u2019ve mention that several times that we\u2019ve been talking, the Halbert prot\u00e9g\u00e9s, and you\u2019ve been involved with a group of copywriters who all knew Gary personally. And so I\u2019m curious about that group and your experience with them and I understand Scott Haines was one of those who recently passed away, and you\u2019ve been doing some stuff with that, tell us about your experience with those guys, and what your doing with Scott\u2019s stuff?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> Sure. In 2009, it was probably my first big public product lanch. I was working with a copywriter who\u2019s studied under Craig [inaudible 00:34:38] and helped him write his copywriting course Tony Flores, he was a simple writing system coach for John Carlton and there was a simple writing coach mastermind in San Francisco, and he was allowed to bring a guest, so he brought me. And when I got there Bond Halbert and Kevin Halbert, Gary Halbert\u2019s sons were there. The first thing that John Carlton brought up to discuss in the mastermind was email. So they basically let me talk for half an hour. So Bond is very big data guy, I asked him myself, what would your dad do Gary Halbert if he came to you at the end of the month and you had been running three ads in three different newspapers, and he said, \u201cOkay, how well did you do?\u201d And you said, \u201cI\u2019m not really sure but I know we made more money than the last month.\u201d And like what would he do? And he said, \u201cMy dad would fire me.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>So he\u2019s really big on data knowing what works the best and doing more of what works the best and doing more of what works the and less of what doesn\u2019t. So he really was attracted to my line of thinking and stuff, so we got to talking, and then he introduced me to Samuel [inaudible 00:35:40] which was Gary\u2019s last prot\u00e9g\u00e9. Ghost wrote a lot of the sales letters his last year that he was here. And then Sammy introduced me Ahmed Suneja another Halbert prot\u00e9g\u00e9, and they had a skin care business and I wrote emails for them, I did the [inaudible 00:35:54] series and that worked really well.<\/p>\n<p>And then I worked for Samuel Markowitz who within three months of working with Gary, Gary said he was one of the 10 best copywriters in the world, and I did some anxiety for him and I\u2019ve recently worked on their health supplements launch.<\/p>\n<p>And then the last person to meet was Scott. He\u2019d just happened to be moving back to Vegas where I lived with my wife. We went out to dinner, and we both loved UFC. So I kind of became the email marketing go to guy for Halbert\u2019s prot\u00e9g\u00e9s Carlton, and all Halbert\u2019s prot\u00e9g\u00e9s come to me when they have a problem about email marketing because they understand that it\u2019s about the right message to the right person and the right time, it\u2019s not just writing great words.<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, so Scott moved to Austin after me and my wife moved to Austin. And we were hanging out here, so basically the last four years I\u2019ve probably hang out in person with Scott more than anybody. Both of us are introverts, so we just like ourselves or one or two people, we don\u2019t like big crowds, stick to ourselves. This past Christmas, he went to Tulsa to be with his family and we had talked about what we were going to do when he got back and all that, and he had a massive stroke on Christmas morning at hos brother\u2019s house. And about two and a half weeks later &#8230; I went up within 24 hours, I drove to Tulsa and I was at his bedside for about three weeks and then he finally passed away.<\/p>\n<p>And what I\u2019ve been doing at the request of the family, is just continue his legacy and going all stuff and getting testimonials. One thing I found that no one knew was that he was basically hoarding tons of home runs, like he had a course that was already selling &#8230; Not at the time, but before called, Shortcut copywriting secrets. And he had How to sales letters volume one, so about 9 or 10 or so huge home runs that he\u2019d written.<\/p>\n<p>But on his computer, I found tons and tons of home runs that not even Caleb and Sammy and Bond had seen including four controls that are three of them are still running today. One is a 14 year control, and I got in contact with his longest running client and he said he\u2019s still can\u2019t find any copywriter to beat Scott today. So pretty impressive.<\/p>\n<p>So I\u2019ve just been doing ad breakdowns on his best ads, contributing to the second version of his course. Guys Grieg [inaudible 00:38:15], John Carlton, Parris Lampropolous, David Deutch, and a lot of big names. So it\u2019s been awesome to see the outpouring of support for Scott.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Where can we access those courses for Scott?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> Yeah, I have a wait list right now, I\u2019m still updating the course, it\u2019s at shortcutcopywritingsecrests.com<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> And you\u2019ve been sharing small pieces of what you\u2019ve been working on, on your own Facebook group that you\u2019ve done around shortcut copywriting secrets as well?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> Yep.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> All right, Well, I\u2019m going to shift gears a bit and ask you about the future, and we\u2019ve had a couple of conversations in the club about the future of copywriting and whether or not robots will take all of our jobs. But I really want to hear from you based on your experience where you see opportunities for copywriters over the next few years?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> I don\u2019t see AI taking over our jobs. I\u2019ve seen all the stuff that\u2019s supposed to be like, oh, we\u2019ll write all your emails for you, you just put in a couple of words, and it\u2019s just crap.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Although, let\u2019s be honest a lot of email marketing already is crap\u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> Yeah, it\u2019s true.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> So it\u2019s not going to be a whole lot worse.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> No. Guy that don\u2019t really on that are going to stand out even more. I have one example, I had an email marketing student and he was a copywriter, there was another student that was struggling and it was kind of out of the scope of the coaching, and so the other copywriter I\u2019m talking about say, \u201cHey, Jason, would you mind if I have some copy codes, would you mind if we kind of worked on &#8230; Helped him with his email a little bit more.\u201d That\u2019s outside of the scope of this coaching, I said, \u201cSure, feel free.\u201d And so he did and the next call, this guy that got the help, he read his email and I likes, \u201cDude, what the hell is this crap?\u201d I said, \u201cThis sounds nothing you, this is like robotic.\u201d And what had happened was, the copy codes had used a \u201cTemplate\u201d and wasn\u2019t personal, wasn\u2019t conversational, sounded nothing like my copy club that was struggling. And I see the same thing with all this AI stuff.<\/p>\n<p>So I\u2019m not a big fun, I got asked to promote a recent launch for something like that and I didn\u2019t want anything to do with it. So again, it\u2019s all about standing out and being able to write the right email to the right person at the right time. Knowing the data, I don\u2019t see it going to AI, I see people being able to do the research and say the right words to get the click or the sale of the email. I don\u2019t like the AI.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> One last question before we lap. I watched one of the testimonial videos of you and your client, and I was like in love with you and some one said that you hadn\u2019t slept in three or four days, something like that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> Three days.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> And i just remember thinking, oh my goodness, I need to stop complaining about just not sleeping for a couple of hours. So how do you handle this big launches like physically and how do you manage just the grind so that you\u2019re not totally burnt out? If you do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> I\u2019m not as hardcore as much. I think the longest is two days now not three. But I like to work out in the morning first thing no matter, even if I haven\u2019t had a lot of sleep. I like to at least do some cardio, do some stretching, and I find that works the best. This [inaudible 00:41:33] does and the green juice, I forget the name of the company, but yeah, a lot of green juice. And I\u2019ve been doing the [inaudible 00:41:41] fasting, and that\u2019s worked really well as well.<\/p>\n<p>So that\u2019s how I\u2019ve been managing, is working out first thing in the morning, taking naps &#8230; So instead of just focusing on, oh my gosh, I have so much crap I got to do, is taking that time even if it\u2019s just half an hour to 45 minutes, might just feel so much better. I\u2019m so much clearer &#8230; My wife is a good help too. I\u2019ll send her an email like, okay, this is the next email, and she\u2019ll send right back and say, where my husband, this is crap, you need to take a nap.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Wow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> I\u2019m being dead serious. So either say is like, I\u2019m telling you, you got to write a book, or she\u2019s like, where the hell is my husband, this is crap.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> That\u2019s great. Well, I appreciate now, I will feel better about my naps. I will feel much more confident as I take more naps. So we want to thank Jason, this is incredible. And I want to be like Big Jason when I grow up.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Yeah, me too. Where can we find you online Jason, if people are looking for you, want to connect with you, where the best places to locate you?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong> Facebook just search &#8230; I believe it\u2019s Facebook.com\/bigmarketing and then emailresponsewarrior.com.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Fantastic. Thank you so much for just the information that you\u2019ve shared, your expertise, the generosity it\u2019s incredible. Lot\u2019s to learn here, thanks.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Former professional basketball player and current email copywriter, Big Jason Henderson, joins Rob and Kira for the 43rd episode of\u00a0The Copywriter Club Podcast. Jason shares how he went from Australian [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_coblocks_attr":"","_coblocks_dimensions":"","_coblocks_responsive_height":"","_coblocks_accordion_ie_support":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[2],"tags":[60,3],"class_list":["post-792","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-podcast","tag-jason-henderson","tag-podcast"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v26.7 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>TCC Podcast #43: Email Copywriting with Big Jason Henderson - The Copywriter Club<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"[interview] Big Jason Henderson talks about what he&#039;s learned after sending more than a billion emails and his too-easy-to-believe secret for great emails.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/email-copywriter-big-jason-henderson\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"TCC Podcast #43: Email Copywriting with Big Jason Henderson - 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