{"id":817,"date":"2017-08-15T14:45:02","date_gmt":"2017-08-15T07:45:02","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/?p=817"},"modified":"2018-01-04T11:23:37","modified_gmt":"2018-01-04T04:23:37","slug":"online-business-expert-zach-spuckler","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/online-business-expert-zach-spuckler\/","title":{"rendered":"TCC Podcast #45: Building Authority and Showing Up with Zach Spuckler"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>This is the 45th episode of\u00a0<em>The Copywriter Club Podcast<\/em> and we&#8217;re joined by online business expert Zach Spuckler. As you listen, you\u2019ll see that Zach\u2019s energy and enthusiasm is contagious\u2014and it quickly becomes clear why we booked him for the show. Zach shares how he started his first business at age 12, started a food blog and a few other businesses before deciding he needed to work in a business that he loved. In the interview Zach talks about:<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0how he knew it was time to do \u201csomething new\u201d in his business<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0how he built his \u201cauthority\u201d as an expert (and what you should do to build yours)<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0his process to ensure he focuses on the most important things first<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0his approach to discipline and showing up every day<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0what his idea of great copy is (we think it\u2019s spot on), and<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0how he uses funnels in his business<\/p>\n<p>Zach also shares his thoughts about what beginning copywriters can do to get their businesses off the ground and the massive difference a team and systems can make for your business. To hear it all, simply click\u00a0the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.<\/p>\n<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_7909\"><!--[if lt IE 9]><script>document.createElement('audio');<\/script><![endif]-->\n<audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-817-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC045.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC045.mp3\">https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC045.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC045.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/?powerpress_pinw=817-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC045.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"TCC045.mp3\">Download<\/a><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/thecopywriterclub.com\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p>\n<h3>The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:<\/h3>\n<p><em>Sponsor:<\/em>\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/www.airstory.co\/club?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com &amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">AirStory<\/a>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.heartsoulhustle.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Heart Soul Hustle<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.amyporterfield.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Amy Porterfield<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/entrepreneur-james-wedmore\/\">James Wedmore<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/JeffBezos?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor\">Jeff Bezos<\/a> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com?&amp;_encoding=UTF8&amp;tag=brandstory00-20&amp;linkCode=ur2&amp;linkId=9e1aedc6e6b8749942b7a483a83775d9&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=9325\">Amazon<\/a>)<br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/kirahug.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Kira\u2019s website<\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/kaleighmoore.us11.list-manage.com\/subscribe?u=7bdb50a2eb0d5b0a501cd1bf4&amp;id=9bf46b3e1d\"><br \/>\n<\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/www.brandstoryonline.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Rob\u2019s website<\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/kaleighmoore.us11.list-manage.com\/subscribe?u=7bdb50a2eb0d5b0a501cd1bf4&amp;id=9bf46b3e1d\"><br \/>\n<\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/groups\/thecopywriterclub\/\">The Copywriter Club Facebook Group<\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\"><br \/>\n<\/a>Intro:\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/soundcloud.com\/fauves\/content-for-now\">Content (for now)<\/a><br \/>\nOutro:\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/album\/gravity\/id304219081?i=304219099\">Gravity<\/a>\n<h3>Full Transcript:<\/h3>\n<p><em>The Copywriter Club Podcast<\/em> is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co\/club.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That\u2019s what Kira and I do every week at the Copywriter Club Podcast.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> You\u2019re invited to join the club for episode 45 as we chat with online business strategist Zach Spuckler about starting a business from scratch with no list and no prospects, how to create Facebook ads and funnels that work, the critical part discipline plays in a successful business and how we can think bigger about our businesses.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Hey Zach, Kira!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> How\u2019s it going? Welcome Zach.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Zach:<\/strong> Thanks for having me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Yeah, it\u2019s great to have you here.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Zach:<\/strong> I am excited to be here.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Zach, I think a great place to start is with your story especially for people or copywriters who don\u2019t know who you are and what you\u2019re all about.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Zach:<\/strong> Absolutely. So my story interestingly enough starts about 10 years ago when I was about 12 years old. The only reason I remember that it starts when I was 12 is I made my first dollar online and I had to use my dad\u2019s social security number because I wasn\u2019t actually old enough to get paid yet. So really he made my first dollar online. I just cashed the check and did the work so to speak.<\/p>\n<p>Over the last 10 years, I started and I\u2019ve done everything online that you can imagine in terms of dabbling. I don\u2019t have extensive knowledge of everything, but if you can make a buck doing it online, there\u2019s a good chance I\u2019ve tried it. Whether it\u2019s website flipping. I did some affiliate marketing through Amazon for a while. I used to run some niche sites. I was in a direct sales company that I still get a tiny almost not worth mentioning commission check for most weeks. I\u2019ve done food blogging and digital courses in the marketing space and out of the marketing space.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019ll fast forward to save time a little bit, but about a year and a half, two years ago, I was running a food blog. I kind of hit this wall where I loved my food blog so much. It was starting to generate revenue. People were coming to me asking me about how to get more reach on their blog. We\u2019ve got Pinterest pins now that are up to 10,000, 20,000 re-pins. We were getting featured in some major publications in the food blogging space. It was all really fine and dandy but I started to kind of burnout. The best way I can explain it is if you\u2019ve ever had a hobby that somebody offers to pay for and suddenly it becomes like no fun at all. A lot of us it\u2019s like you\u2019re really great at baking and then you decide that you\u2019re going to sell your cupcakes and then suddenly you hate the kitchen. Well that kind of happened to me.<\/p>\n<p>Like quite literally I started to despise the kitchen. I didn\u2019t like my food blog. I wrote this post that I was going to take a three month hiatus. I really went soul searching at that time if you will to say, \u201cWhat really lights me up?\u201d At that point, I\u2019d been online so to speak for about seven and a half, eight years which is a really long time to be in an industry like this. Digital marketing and studying marketing and I said, \u201cWhat has really been pushing me to keep going? Why am I even still here?\u201d Because by all outside perspective, the food blog was going great. It was starting to earn money but I wasn\u2019t happy. So what was I doing wrong?<\/p>\n<p>I really evaluated what had been making me so excited about the prospect of being online. I realized from day one it had been the marketing. With my niche sites, it had been studying SEO. In direct sales, it was being one of the first people in my downline to kind of dabble with Facebook ads to land prospects. When I was building out websites, it was getting really clear on creating up back link webs to drive traffic through websites and rank higher in Google. You can\u2019t really do that anymore. It doesn\u2019t work. I realize that learning all these intricate systems and strategies is what was really getting me excited.<\/p>\n<p>So fast forward to the start of my current company Heart, Soul and Hustle, we started it and you said something in the intro that I\u2019d love to touch on which is like we started with no list, no massive success in the industry, no million dollar company to speak to, and my core vision was I know enough about marketing. I\u2019ve made money in several spaces, industries, strategies. So I\u2019m going to teach people what I know, how I know from where I am now. From day one, I\u2019m just going to be really transparent about how I\u2019m doing, what my results look like and people who naturally gravitate towards me will and people who think I\u2019m not a big enough expert or I haven\u2019t done it long enough or just don\u2019t resonate with me fully, they\u2019ll kind of repel away.<\/p>\n<p>So about two years ago, we launched our first digital course. It was on Periscope. I was doing Facebook ad management. I was getting about $1,000 a week in clients. We launched that course saying, \u201cI can\u2019t teach you much but I can teach you how I\u2019ve been making $1,000 a week for a month.\u201d That snowballed into our first six figure course. Then I got to talk more about my passion which is Facebook ads. We\u2019ve released that course which I have to double check the stats but I believe that\u2019s our second six figure course or it might be the third one.<\/p>\n<p>Then as people started to attract to me, we released another course on launching with five day challenges which is something that I just love. That has become our third six figure course. So we\u2019ve got these courses out there. That kind of led me to where I am today where I\u2019ve just always operated from let\u2019s have fun. Let\u2019s be transparent and now I get to do cool stuff like beyond podcasts and do launches and get paid to travel and all that good stuff.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Zach, we\u2019d definitely want to get into all of that. You mentioned the self-evaluation that you went through and asking yourself \u201cWhat are the things that really lit you up?\u201d Can you walk us through that process just a little bit more deeply? What were the questions you were asking yourself or what did that look like as you went through that process? I imagine a lot of people reached that same point in their business even copywriters. It\u2019s like, \u201cI don\u2019t enjoy this anymore.\u201d I\u2019m just really curious what that evaluation really look like from your standpoint.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Zach:<\/strong> The big thing was I just stepped back and said, \u201cClearly I\u2019m not lit up or happy doing \u2026\u201d At the time, it was my food blog. For anybody listening, one post on the food blog is anywhere from a 12 to 20 hour commitment. That\u2019s assuming you get the recipe down pretty quick. You have to photograph it and you have to develop the recipe. You have to taste test it. If you\u2019re like really hard core which I was not but if you\u2019re really hard core, you have taste testers and you seek out features. Then once you publish it, then the real work starts because you have to go out and you have to request features and submit your photos and create your pins.<\/p>\n<p>Basically, I was doing a lot of stuff that I was doing and I was saying, \u201cWhat is the means to the end? Why am I doing this? What do I love?\u201d Really, in this process, there\u2019s things that kind of light you up. I think the best analogy is like people who love running which I still don\u2019t get. I don\u2019t get how you can love running, but I do like to run which is funny. I like to go out for a run. Like probably later in the day today I\u2019ll go for a run. The prospect of running is not thrilling to me. I don\u2019t think it\u2019s thrilling to a lot of people, but then there\u2019s those weirdos who love it. Hopefully, you\u2019re not one of them and offended, but maybe you are. It\u2019s cool.<\/p>\n<p>Like, what is it about running that I love? Well I like feeling good afterwards. I like getting outside. I like the feel of the sun on my face. It\u2019s that same parallel in whatever you\u2019re doing right now. You don\u2019t hate everything you do. There are facets that you don\u2019t like. It\u2019s just like people who work a nine to five even. They\u2019re like, \u201cI don\u2019t like my job. I don\u2019t like my job.\u201d I can\u2019t tell you how many entrepreneurs I know who are like, \u201cI feel so isolated.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cWell you didn\u2019t hate your job. You hated the work at your job but you love the sense of community. So you need to find a way to duplicate that in what you\u2019re doing now.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s basically what I did. What is lighting me up? Really, it was people asking me about traffic. People asking me about Pinterest. Being able to run Facebook ads, doing marketing campaigns and promotions. So I just got really clear, \u201cHow I do more of that in my business?\u201d For me, the answer was I just start talking about it more and being completely honest. I never wanted to be one of those people whose like \u201cI\u2019m a six figure coach because I read 30 blog posts.\u201d I didn\u2019t want to be that guy but I knew what I knew. So I spoke from that. I said, \u201cWhat do I really love about my current business? What do I not love about my current business? What\u2019s the means to the end?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, sometimes it\u2019s not going to be fun. Not everybody wants to go for a run every day, but what are the facets that I do love that I can kind of hold onto to push me through? It really came down to Facebook ads. I could do Facebook ads all day every day. We have an ads manager who\u2019s always pinging because I\u2019m in there setting up ads myself because I just love it. Writing really fun copy and emails in marketing. That\u2019s always lit me up and then creating. I just really love the process of creating and that\u2019s why I clung to food blogging so long because it really was this incredible creative outlet. Once I found a happy medium of those which was a lot of trial and error and really two years of work, it led me to where I am now. So super longwinded answer.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> No, I love that. So you said, you started with no list, no prospects and then you mentioned at least three courses, three six figure courses. So can you connect the dots for us? How did you go from no list, no prospects to really making a name for yourself? At least I heard of you when you blew up with periscope and I felt like everyone was talking about you then. What were you doing behind the scenes to gain that authority status?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Zach:<\/strong> I mean it was a lot of work quite honestly. Back when I was using periscope as my primary marketing strategy, it was a lot of organic work. I would just show up and I think that\u2019s really the biggest thing. I was going live on a livestream platform anywhere from two to three times a day for almost an entire year. I was just so consistent. I showed up all the time. I was constantly giving value. I was quite honestly constantly selling which I think is something people get kind of afraid of. I was always in sales mode. I personally love selling. That for me is what really kind of put me on the map was showing up.<\/p>\n<p>I also got really strategic about developing relationships. I\u2019ve got to be on Amy Porterfield\u2019s podcast a couple of times who\u2019s relatively big in my industry. It\u2019s funny the first time I met Amy, I had already been on her show. I got to meet her in person at a mastermind event. She said, \u201cI don\u2019t even know how we connected.\u201d I remember telling her like, \u201cI know exactly how we connected. It was very intentional.\u201d I think that it\u2019s that happy medium of showing up. I was really consistent and I still to this day strive to be consistent in wherever my content is.<\/p>\n<p>Then second, I\u2019m really strategic about what I want. What people don\u2019t know is I got to be on Amy\u2019s show twice now but the first time I was on it, the process from like that initial I should be on the show about this to actually being on the show to the actual release day was like a nine month process. It didn\u2019t just happen. Our attention span is lower than ever. I don\u2019t want to go down a rabbit hole but I think that there\u2019s this perception that with online marketing you put it out there, you get paid, you move on. Some of the stuff I\u2019ve worked on is like months and months of strategizing and process where the public view is like a 7 to 10 day window. So I just really leaned into that and that really help me scale up.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> I really want to talk about that more because it feels to me like a lot of copywriters just sort of let work come to them and let things happen. They\u2019re not strategic about their businesses. Can we dig into what it takes to be strategic? I know the answer to that question is really a 12 hour seminar and not a podcast. To the extent that we can, can we bullet this down just a little bit? What does that take to be strategic about a business?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Zach:<\/strong> Totally. I think that I\u2019ve got a really simple answer because it\u2019s something we started doing which is getting super clear on what the one thing you want right now is and checking that everything you do is moving you towards that. It almost comes down to what you need to be doing for that one big thing that\u2019s the next project. My first year in business, I did whatever it took, whenever it took and that was great for generating growth and business, but it wasn\u2019t super sustainable. I don\u2019t show up on livestreaming two to three times a day now.<\/p>\n<p>So it\u2019s like I don\u2019t want to give the advice of like go out and show up every day, because I can tell you from personal experience it\u2019s not sustainable. I also know that the advice of like go spend money on ads is also not real advice, because quite frankly I can go spend $20,000 on a launch now but it took me two and a half years to get there. My first ever launch we spend $100 in ads. So I\u2019ve gotten to play both sides of the spectrum. Everything you do in your business cost one of your two most valuable resource, time or money.<\/p>\n<p>Generally, the more you have of one, the less you need of the other. So when it comes to showing up really consistently and being strategic, what we started doing is every month we have one focus. I\u2019m allowed to have a little bit of shiny object syndrome. It\u2019s internet marketing. I love to take courses. Last weekend, I locked myself in my bedroom and learned about Instagram even though it\u2019s really not a major focus of ours for the next quarter, but it\u2019s fun and I like it.<\/p>\n<p>I say, \u201cWhat is our big focus for the next month?\u201d Usually I know when our next launch is coming up. I ask every day, \u201cAm I moving towards that in some capacity?\u201d So right now we just wrapped up our focus for last month. This month was twofold. Content development and the release of a beta course. So everything I did \u2026 I was actually traveling. I was in New York, in California. I didn\u2019t actually have a lot of time to work the first half of May. So any time I opened up my computer, I said, \u201cWhat am I doing right now to move us towards this beta launch and to move us towards our upcoming launch?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>If I\u2019m not doing something every day to do that, I\u2019m not being strategic. I\u2019m falling into like the shoulds. Like, \u201cOh I should be posting on Facebook. I should be doing this. I should be doing that.\u201d So I\u2019ve removed that. There are no more shoulds. The only thing I need to be doing is something that moves me towards my ultimate goal. It\u2019s not this whole 12 month vision and where do you want your company to be in three years. Is that information important? Yeah. Do we know that? Yeah, but like, \u201cWhere you want to be in a month and three months? What are you actually focusing on?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Most people say, \u201cI want more money and I want to grow my list.\u201d Which like, \u201cYeah me too.\u201d What do you actually want to create? Is it a course? Is it more clients? Once you know what you need, the funny thing is you know what it takes. Information is no longer the commodity it used to be. It\u2019s not hard to figure out what to do. Might be hard to figure out how to do it. It might be challenging to do it. Like if you say, \u201cI want to land 10 clients this month.\u201d You know how you landed your last client, do that 10 more times. That\u2019s what we do. That\u2019s how I really get focused.<\/p>\n<p>Then that really opens the door to \u201cIf I don\u2019t want to work, that\u2019s okay because I\u2019m only focusing on one thing at a time. Either I\u2019m working towards this goal or I\u2019m not.\u201d It\u2019s not I\u2019m working or I\u2019m not and it really changes the conversation at least for me and my team.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> So Zach I view you as this trifecta of awesome. I\u2019m saying that because you\u2019re like this powerhouse because you can write great copy. Maybe you don\u2019t call yourself a copywriter and you\u2019re not working with clients and copy but you\u2019re an incredible copywriter. Then you get strategy and then you have this big great personality and I feel like that\u2019s a powerhouse in social media. And that\u2019s why you\u2019re successful in social media. Where do you think copywriters today should really focus their attention in building their brand, building their business in social media? Many of us just tend to shy away from it or we just get so overwhelmed with client work that we\u2019re just like, \u201cOkay. I don\u2019t have time for it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Zach:<\/strong> I love this question because over the last two to three months I\u2019ve been paying attention to my audience. I\u2019ve been to some live events. The feedback from my audience has been like, \u201cYou\u2019re always online. You\u2019re always on social media.\u201d Which is so funny because I\u2019m never on social media lately. I\u2019m never online. I feel like my Facebook page is ghost town. I\u2019ve just started posting daily on Instagram. At the time of recording this, it\u2019s been four days. So we\u2019ll see how long that lasts. I think the big thing is like, where do you focus on social media? I hate this answer because it really sounds like almost snarky which I am, so not horrible but it\u2019s like wherever they are. That\u2019s where you should be focusing. To take it into less of the abstract we hear everywhere.<\/p>\n<p>You hear that all the time. Like, \u201cGo where the customers are. That\u2019s what you\u2019re supposed to be doing. Don\u2019t fish in the small pond. Go into the ocean and find your customers. They\u2019re out there.\u201d I think the real key thing is like figure out who you want to work with and where they are to begin with. So for me, I work with digital entrepreneurs. Mostly they have info products. Sometimes I work with exclusively coaches but the mass majority, 80% of them, I research my audience.<\/p>\n<p>They\u2019re women. They\u2019re usually 25 to 40. They usually have one to two kids or they\u2019re thinking about having a kid and they love Facebook and Instagram. They don\u2019t necessarily love Facebook, but they do want to run Facebook ads so they\u2019re there and they\u2019re in Facebook groups. So that\u2019s number one. Like get really clear on where they are.<\/p>\n<p>Number two, how do I speak to them in a way that disrupts their attention? Whether we like it or not, social media is crowded. It\u2019s loud. There are ton of people that do what we do so you have to stand out. For me, that really comes down to paying attention to what people are doing and saying something different. So we just did this major promo with James Wedmore and what we did in and I told James during the promo and I told some of the people in it a little tongue-in-cheek like \u201cI watched what you were all talking about and I talked about something else.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Just being different now even in crowded space helps you stand out. So again to solidify for example everybody was talking about how James help them make all this money and how their business has grown and launch numbers and stats which was all great. I talk about that stuff all the time. During this promo, I said, \u201cMy customers are out there. They\u2019re listening. What did James create for me that these people also want that no one\u2019s talking about?\u201d It was time and freedom. So most of my emails during this promo focused on creating time, freedom, creating happiness, creating the ability to breathe in my life again and we actually got emails back of people saying like, \u201cOh my gosh, everyone is talking about money. You\u2019re not.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>We had one email that still stands out to me. She said, \u201cThis is the first email I\u2019ve gotten this week that\u2019s not talking about money in the marketing space. I was totally checked out, but I decided to buy the program.\u201d That\u2019s what we want to do.<\/p>\n<p>The last step is, how do you turn up the effectiveness? Which can be Facebook ads. It could be email marketing. It could be visibility marketing. It could be hashtags on Instagram. At the end of the day, once you know who you want to talk to and what they want, how you want to stand out, all you have to do is quite literally put yourself in front of them. So it comes down to, how do I put myself in front of my customers? Don\u2019t complicate it. Don\u2019t overthink it. It\u2019s usually something like the right hashtags, getting really strategic with Facebook ads and then all you have to do is go learn how to do that.<\/p>\n<p>So many people get caught up in like, \u201cHow do I get in front of my people?\u201d It doesn\u2019t matter how you in front of them until you know what you want to say then you get in front of them. Then really it\u2019s just kind of I know it sounds funny and it\u2019s easy for me to say where I am now but having done it for two years, it\u2019s just semantics at that point. How do I want people to receive this message I know will resonate with them? That\u2019s how we go into actively attracting people in.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Zach, as I listen to you talk about all of this, it seems to me that there\u2019s a theme that runs through all of it and that is discipline. You\u2019re very disciplined in the very things that you do during the day. I believe you\u2019re disciplined about how you eat. You\u2019re disciplined in a lot of the things that you do. I wonder, is that something that comes natural to you or do you have a process or a secret for bringing discipline into your daily life?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Zach:<\/strong> It\u2019s funny because I hear this all the time. People are like, \u201cYou\u2019re so disciplined or you\u2019re so focused. You\u2019re so consistent.\u201d I recently recorded a podcast about how \u2026 I\u2019m not really even that consistent. In fact, the last two months I\u2019ve missed like two or three podcasts. It\u2019s just funny. So I think that there is this perception of discipline that everybody tends to think that everybody else is more disciplined than them. I have certain elements of discipline. I\u2019m vegan. I\u2019ve been vegan for four years. I don\u2019t eat anything non-vegan, but I would be totally lying to you if I told you I didn\u2019t go to Chipotle last night. I totally skip out on my run. I could stand to lose a good solid 10, 15 pounds right now.<\/p>\n<p>I share that because there\u2019s this perception first off that like everybody is way more disciplined. It was the most fascinating phenomenon I saw over the last couple months. So I\u2019ve been traveling and I really for whatever reason picked up on it. To answer the question, I promise there\u2019s a point to why I\u2019m saying this. It\u2019s not about being consistent or being disciplined, it\u2019s about making sure that your business is disciplined. There\u2019s this really clear distinction here which is like this week I\u2019ve actually been lazy. I didn\u2019t really logon very much, but when I was logged on, I was really strategic about what I was doing.<\/p>\n<p>So it\u2019s not about, how do I show up every day and be the best I can be? It\u2019s, how do I make sure my business shows up every day? So for me that\u2019s number one Facebook ads. We spend a couple hundred bucks a day, every single day putting our business in front of new people. Whether I turn on my computer or not, my business is going in front of new people. I think that that\u2019s just super, super vital. Something we like to say is, \u201cIf Jeff Bezos, the CEO of Amazon, gets the flu tomorrow, Amazon doesn\u2019t shut down for four days. Our business shouldn\u2019t either.\u201d So we get that consistency in there.<\/p>\n<p>Number two, it\u2019s just been getting really clear on because I don\u2019t want to work as much, I\u2019ve been very kind of transparent with my audience that I\u2019m on a journey to work less. I can impact my audience and impact my students without working 80 hours a week. I\u2019ve done it. It\u2019s not fun. It doesn\u2019t light me up. So when I am online, I have to make sure that I\u2019m doing things that are really impactful and put out that perception that I\u2019m being really consistent. So I\u2019ve only worked about 8 to 10 hours this week. We\u2019re recording this on a Thursday, but today I have to work like eight hour days. So I don\u2019t think it\u2019s too, too glamorous.<\/p>\n<p>Earlier this week, I said, \u201cWhat\u2019s our focus right now?\u201d We\u2019re still working on our automated webinar from last month because I overestimated or underestimated how long it would take to write email. I said, \u201cWhat can we do to make this work and make this profitable?\u201d So we set up a webinar. We\u2019re hosting it tonight and that\u2019s all I\u2019ve been focusing on. Every time you turn on my computer is, \u201cAre we getting 400 people into this webinar?\u201d Because I need to record it for my automation.<\/p>\n<p>Even though my big focus this month is automating my webinar, we also tap into this last little piece here which is leveraging. I have to give credit to James Wedmore who really started pushing me to think about leveraging our content. Even though my focus right now is getting this automated webinar out, we\u2019re trying to turn it into like a $5,000 to $10,000 quick little promo that builds my list, gets my name out there, sells my product and it\u2019s moving us towards the ultimate goal of these months which is organic content and an automated webinar.<\/p>\n<p>So when you bring those pieces together of getting your business consistent, getting your focus consistent and leveraging whatever you put out there, that is what really puts that perception of discipline out there. That\u2019s what lets me take a whole Monday off, not really check in but to send one email and still have people saying like, \u201cYou\u2019re so disclaimed. You\u2019re so checked in.\u201d I totally wish I was more disciplined than I am, but my business has the systems and structures in place to be super disciplined whether I am or not.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> I want to shift gears. You mentioned writing emails for this launch. Like I said I\u2019ve read your copy. I love reading your copy. So what is your writing process look like? Do you bring in copywriters or are you typically writing all of your content on your own?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Zach:<\/strong> 80% to 90% of the time I\u2019m writing my own copy and it\u2019s not because I don\u2019t love copywriters. It\u2019s because I tend to be a last minute kind of person. Kira, I think we worked together before and I remember I was like, \u201cHey, are you busy this week?\u201d That\u2019s totally \u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> I think you were like, \u201cWait, what about tomorrow?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Zach:<\/strong> Yeah. That\u2019s usually my style. So that\u2019s part of the reason I don\u2019t work with a ton of copywriters, but when we\u2019re prepping for a big launch or something massive, I absolutely bring in a copywriter. When we write long form blog post, I work with a copy editor. So I write an 8,000 word post kind of in my style and she comes through and tweaks the copy. I usually ask for like a four to eight hour turnaround. Again, totally unreasonable but I found really great people who don\u2019t mind my need to do everything yesterday. The process, it came really naturally to me because I got an undergraduate degree. I went to master\u2019s program.<\/p>\n<p>I got an undergraduate degree in exercise science where when you write a paper for an exercise science class or a health class that is pretty much as structured as it\u2019s going to get if you will. Like APA format. Never use the passive voice. Always be direct. Make sure you reference your sources. I never really liked that. I\u2019ve always been a decent writer because I\u2019m relatively creative, but I didn\u2019t like that. What I realized was great copy is kind of two-pronged if you will. I\u2019m not a copywriter so maybe there\u2019s some theory or more elaboration that you can speak to Kira about this.<\/p>\n<p>For me, it comes down to, what is my audience saying? What are their words? Who cares what I think, what are their words? What is their jargon? What do they think of all of this stuff? Combined with being relatable and writing the way you talk. Most people are really effective conversational communicators. You may not be a persuasive writer. You might not be able to like sell from the stage, but I don\u2019t even think that copy \u2026 in my experience comes down to that. Is that important?<\/p>\n<p>Totally but it\u2019s being a good conversationalist and being able to imagine how people are thinking and receiving your text. So we survey my audience constantly. We\u2019re always asking questions. What you want to know? How you want to know? What\u2019s the best way to know? We read through those survey responses. When I\u2019m in the process of working on copy, I am immersing myself and really listening to what my audience is saying.<\/p>\n<p>Right now, we just did a founding member launch of a list building course which is like also known as a beta launch. We\u2019ve got our first round of people in. In our first email to them for a webinar they registered for we sold it, we said, \u201cWhat is your biggest struggle with list building? What would it look like in your business if list building worked? What do we have to cover on this webinar?\u201d I told my audience and I\u2019m not afraid to share this is we literally let them write the sales and copy script. If I know what their struggle is, I say, \u201cHey, are you struggling with this?\u201d I know what they want. \u201cHey, do you want this?\u201d I know how they want or what they perceive they need to know and those are part of the program I sell. The copywriting doesn\u2019t sell.<\/p>\n<p>I just have to show up, step into my personality because your personality naturally attracts or repels. I\u2019m a very loud \u2026 I have a big personality like you said. Some people cannot stand it. I know because I read the comments on my Facebook ads. If I show up with that personality, I speak to the way those people speak what transmission they want. I think the rest kind of takes care of itself. I\u2019m not afraid to say like I know some of the copywriting tricks. I know how to remove passive voice. I know the power of three.<\/p>\n<p>I know how to write really good hooks, but that stuff just comes with studying in time and paying attention to your audience. Really, if you can get good at telling stories, get good at speaking in your own natural voice and then just kind of listen and regurgitate what people want, copywriting to me is almost formulaic in just whatever they say, say it back to them with what they want to hear.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Yeah. I think you pretty much nailed it Zach. I love the fact that you survey your audience consistently to get that feedback. I think that\u2019s a lot of what it is it\u2019s putting up the mirror and letting them see what they want and giving it to them. I think that\u2019s perfect.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Yeah. We see a lot of beginning copywriters I think ask about, \u201cHey, what are your favorite power words or what are the tricks to writing a good headline?\u201d It\u2019s just not about that stuff. It\u2019s all about listening to your customers.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Zach:<\/strong> Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> So Zach, as we talk about copywriting and what you do, I\u2019m really curious, what does a typical funnel look like in your business?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Zach:<\/strong> A typical funnel in our business right now is actually very simple. That\u2019s why I love talking about funnels. If I\u2019m being totally transparent and I\u2019ve shared this with my audience. Our funnels are profitable but not at the profit level we want. However, we launch enough and do enough promos that if we\u2019re building our list, we\u2019re building our business. I\u2019m super okay to say that.<\/p>\n<p>A typical funnel for us is just about five to seven emails and may be some content. It really, really is that simple. Our stuff sells very passively. I would say our more intensive funnels are actually our launches. That\u2019s where we lean on for a lot of revenue even though we have passive revenue coming in all the time. Here is what like a typical funnel looks like that really helps us stand out from the industry. Number one, we lead with value and we probably don\u2019t even mention our course upfront. I can\u2019t tell you how often people are like, \u201cI can\u2019t find your course on your website.\u201d Maybe that\u2019s a detriment to me, maybe not but I\u2019m leading with my content, not my products. So that the first thing.<\/p>\n<p>Second thing is we actually give like valuable advice outside of the industry. So I\u2019m in the marketing space. I\u2019ll just stick with this. I\u2019ve opted into like a million funnels. Everybody teaches Facebook ads so do I so I guess I\u2019m part of everybody. You opt in and they\u2019re like, \u201cHere\u2019s my five tips for Facebook ads and you should have really great copy and really great images.\u201d Then three days later, they\u2019re like, \u201cBuy my course where I teach you great copy and great images.\u201d Hopefully, nobody listening has this but like no offense I know I need great copy and great images. You\u2019re not sharing anything with me.<\/p>\n<p>In our funnel, we do something like one of our emails is how we lowered our lead cost 50% which is literally here step-by-step how to set up a warm audience. That\u2019s something I can charge for but I don\u2019t. It\u2019s free inside my funnel. One is like troubleshooting your Facebook ads. It\u2019s a step-by-step process we walk through. We teach it way more in depth inside my course but I\u2019m teaching the basics of troubleshooting because people opting in for my Facebook ads they\u2019re not like, \u201cWow! Maybe I\u2019ll run a Facebook ad this week.\u201d They\u2019ve been doing it for three to six months.<\/p>\n<p>Again, I\u2019ve listened and studied. They\u2019ve been doing it for a while maybe three to six months, maybe even longer and it\u2019s not working. They want someone to say, \u201cHey, let\u2019s fix your ads.\u201d I\u2019m giving them little taste of what it\u2019s like to work with me, what information I have and then putting that all out there for free. Then I am an unapologetic salesperson because my big thing is listen I run a business. Generally speaking, businesses make money. I really love traveling. If I get first-class upgrade, I\u2019m all about that life because I usually don\u2019t pay retail. I try to upgrade at the counter. So that means my business runs on revenue. Not afraid to tell people that.<\/p>\n<p>So when I sell, I sell. I sell like it\u2019s my job because it is my job. I\u2019m going to write a really powerful sales email. I\u2019m going to speak to their problems. I\u2019m going to talk their stuff. I think that one little thing to understand about funnels is I think people have this perception that a funnel is like I\u2019m warming them up and then they trust me so I don\u2019t have to pitch them. They\u2019re just going to buy from me. I\u2019m like, \u201cI wish. I wish that was the case.\u201d No, you\u2019re warming them up, proving your value and then you\u2019re saying, \u201cIf you like me and you like my value, now it\u2019s time to pay me.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Just this little insight to anybody who\u2019s kind of like, \u201cWell, how do you sell or where do you sell?\u201d You sell like it\u2019s your job. A lot of times people are like, \u201cWell if I sell too hard in my email, people will unsubscribe or people will leave or what if I\u2019m too aggressive?\u201d One thing to think about, I won\u2019t name any specific industries but there\u2019s some very, very niche industries. Not in online marketing, not in sales but just think about some of the niche markets. There\u2019s literally a market out there for people who are professional woodworkers that need high quality equipment.<\/p>\n<p>Every market has a very niche feeling. The people that you pay attention to in your niche whether it\u2019s small or big are the ones that are paying you. Let\u2019s just stick with this example. If you\u2019re in that woodworking space and your selling $500 carving equipment, who cares what the hobbyist woodworker thinks about your prices or your strategy. So if we transfer that over to our industry, if people aren\u2019t paying you, stop caring about their opinion on your sales mechanisms if you\u2019re growing your business. Now if you\u2019re not selling anything and people are like, \u201cYou\u2019re a crappy salesperson.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Maybe it\u2019s time to listen. If you\u2019re even selling just a handful or you\u2019re getting sales, you have to sell. People aren\u2019t excited to whip out their wallet and hand you a credit card. You have to get them excited. You to show them the value. So our funnels are like, \u201cHere\u2019s where to click. Here\u2019s what to buy. Here\u2019s why you should buy. Here\u2019s case studies. Here\u2019s retargeting Facebook ads.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Once they go through our system and we know they\u2019re the right customer, we\u2019re going to do everything in our power to get them to click that buy button because I believe in my products. I believe in my industry. I know that people are not excited to spend money for no reason. That\u2019s my job to get them excited and show them the potential of working with me. It\u2019s more of a high level answer about our funnels but it really comes down to really great value, really great content and then selling just like you would to someone who doesn\u2019t know you well.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> I love that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> There are oftentimes business owners who are like, \u201cWell maybe I\u2019m sending too many emails during my launch. Maybe I\u2019m hitting them too hard on the cart close day.\u201d I think you said it best. It\u2019s your job to sell it. If you\u2019re not selling it, no one else will. Zach, I want to pivot again because you paid attention. You listened. You study. You are a student on the online marketing world. What have you noticed that copywriters maybe are not doing as well or maybe there\u2019s some opportunities that you\u2019re just like, \u201cWhy aren\u2019t copywriters jumping on that?\u201d? From your position, what have you noticed and observed that may be helpful to all of our listeners?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Zach:<\/strong> For me, I think there\u2019s a big trend and it\u2019s not just in copywriting. It\u2019s kind of worldly. I\u2019m going to date myself a little bit here in the opposite way. So like predate myself. I don\u2019t know. You all realize how young I am. So the millennial generation is really coming into their own so to speak. They are starting to have majority control of the money, of the economy, of the way things are and in my industry the way that this perpetuates is like really for the last 5 to 10 years being the six figure anything or the $100 days like that was where it was. That\u2019s what people wanted to hear.<\/p>\n<p>Now I don\u2019t lean so heavily on my revenue numbers. Do I talk about them? Yeah. I teach business to business owners. People care about revenue but there\u2019s this massive shift in the world that the things that were important to us 10 years ago are not the same things that are important anymore. The smart copywriters I think are starting to tune into that. I\u2019ve really noticed this as I\u2019ve started going to more events. So I\u2019ll go bring this full circle.<\/p>\n<p>For my industry, I\u2019m not hearing things as much like, \u201cI want to make X number of dollars per month.\u201d I don\u2019t see that anymore. I see it, but I only see it from educators. I don\u2019t tend to see it from my audience. Internally, people are not banging on my door saying, \u201cTeach me how to make $10,000 a month Zach.\u201d They don\u2019t care. What I\u2019m seeing are people saying things like, \u201cI want to work less. I want to spend time with my kids. I want to enjoy my life more. I feel like I\u2019m tied to my computer. I hate my job.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I know as the business owner that if I can make them more money, I solve all their problems, but they don\u2019t think that money is their problem. They think their situation is their problem. In my space where I see a lot of copywriters not necessarily going wrong but for whatever reason, I still see a ton of people like, \u201cI\u2019m a six figure this. I\u2019m a six figure that. Six, seven figures.\u201d Those are great as a qualifier. On every single sales page you\u2019re going to find it says, \u201cI work with six and seven figure business owners.\u201d Because it\u2019s a qualifier, but it\u2019s not my headline. It\u2019s not my sexy hook. It\u2019s not my big pitch.<\/p>\n<p>I have a program called the five figure challenge where the lead-in is your first $10,000 launch but it\u2019s not even really about the money. The reason that program does so well is there\u2019s this perception that a $10,000 launch creates that\u2019s stuff. We actually studied my audience. How much money do they think it takes to hit the numbers they want to hit? The big shift I think needs to be is reevaluating everything.<\/p>\n<p>If you\u2019re in the health and wellness space, saying blast your belly fat, oh my gosh it makes me want to die because that doesn\u2019t work anymore. People don\u2019t want to blast their belly fat. You know what they want to do? They want to feel good. They want to look confident. Whether we like it or not, the media has changed in the last 10 to 15 years. You don\u2019t have to like it but there is now a perception of how people look. Thirty years ago, someone in California didn\u2019t really know how someone looked in Ohio for most of their life unless they traveled. Now we know. We have this perception of beauty in LA and this perception of beauty in the Midwest. I\u2019m like an Ohio 10 and a LA four and that\u2019s okay. I know that about myself.<\/p>\n<p>We have to realize that as the world changes, every subsequent industry shifts. If you\u2019re still talking to them like quite frankly the radio ads you used to hear 10 to 15 years ago, that\u2019s where you\u2019re going wrong. Sexy headlines that worked 10 years ago, didn\u2019t come from some guy who wrote a really great book with the sexiest headlines. It came from this is what the industry response to at the time and here are some really sexy headlines. Blast belly fat, make six figures, lose the baby weight. That stuff doesn\u2019t resonate the way it did 10 or 15 years ago. It\u2019s not a copy problem. It\u2019s not a sales problems. It\u2019s not an industry problem. It\u2019s a fact that all audiences evolve.<\/p>\n<p>So to me, the biggest thing is \u2026 I promise I would bring it full circle is stop relying on what other copywriters say works. Stop relying on other stuff you see marketers and copywriters and people that run business in your industry doing and saying and start talking like the people you want to sell to, start talking with and to the people who actually you want to work with and that\u2019s where you\u2019re marketing messages come from. People say to us like, \u201cOh my gosh, you\u2019re inside my head.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cWell yeah, but we asked you what you wanted to know. It\u2019s not unintentional.\u201d I can\u2019t tell you how often someone goes, \u201cThis came at just the right time.\u201d We\u2019re like, \u201cYeah of course it did. We listened to what you wanted.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> We surveyed you last week.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Zach:<\/strong> Yes. We surveyed you last week. So crazy that we came up with this offer a week later that\u2019s perfectly speaks to what you asked for. Crazy but it is really intentional. It\u2019s kind of shutting down the noise of the industry and tuning into the noise of your audience.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> So Zach, if I am just starting out in the online world or maybe I\u2019ve been doing something for two or three years but my list is small, I haven\u2019t really been getting any traction. What kinds of things would you recommend that I would start doing to start growing my business to the point where it feels successful to me?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Zach:<\/strong> Doing the stuff that you don\u2019t really want to do but you know you should.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> I want to do that stuff.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Zach:<\/strong> Yeah I know. I promise. I don\u2019t like to be too like [inaudible 00:39:10] because then people are like, \u201cYeah thank so much for that sage wisdom.\u201d So to give you like an actual tangible story that I think will explain the work is when I first started my current business I didn\u2019t have a lot of money. I was a college student. I was going for a master\u2019s program. My student loans were a little nuts. Basically, I didn\u2019t have a ton of money. I said, \u201cWhat am I good at that I can generate some revenue?\u201d I was a VA for the first three months of my business. I used that money to run Facebook ads and buy software I needed, but I wasn\u2019t like public or running around. I\u2019m an assistant while I build my business.<\/p>\n<p>Here\u2019s what I learned from doing that. I was basically a service-based business in addition to building a company. So I justify this as like I had a part-time job and then had a second part time job where I was freelancing which is what most college students do. Not the freelancing just having two jobs. Then I was building my business. What I did was every day I went into like a Facebook group and anybody looking for a VA got a message from me to the point where I was sending like 10 to 15 messages a day. I was responding to posts. I was building connections. I was getting on the phone. I was doing whatever it took to get one more client to run my Facebook ads.<\/p>\n<p>For those that are copywriters, like guess what? There are people out there right now they\u2019re like looking for a copywriter. I see it every day. People are like, \u201cI need a copywriter. I need this. I need that.\u201d I\u2019m not sitting here saying like, \u201cUndercut your competition or be the first one to respond.\u201d Just be the one to respond. Back to what we talked about earlier. There\u2019s this perception that everyone is disciplined. If you reach out to like 10 people a day who you know need copy help and they\u2019re explicitly asking for it, trust me, they\u2019re out there. They\u2019re posting in Facebook groups. They\u2019re posting on their wall. They\u2019re asking really leading questions on their page. Reach out to people and you will actually start getting those clients. You will start closing people.<\/p>\n<p>The reality is there\u2019s nothing glamorous about sending an email 10 times a day that says, \u201cHey, I saw you\u2019re interested in a copywriter. Can you tell me more about what you\u2019re looking for?\u201d Nothing glamorous about that, but it works. If that\u2019s where you are right now, that\u2019s where you start right now. The second thing is I would get really clear on who you want to serve. I\u2019m going to be totally honest. I struggle with the whole ideal client avatar thing. It still doesn\u2019t work for me. You can tell when I talk about my audience, I\u2019m like, \u201cThey\u2019re women 25 to 40.\u201d I am totally like the analytical demographic side of thing. I don\u2019t have Barb who\u2019s a stay-at-home mom, who drives her Lexus and does \u2026 I don\u2019t know her life story.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> It could be me because I do fit into it. I am that woman.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Zach:<\/strong> I don\u2019t necessarily jive with that side of things. If I know kind of who I want to talk to, for me I tend to attract women like I said 25 to 40. They have a much different mindset than men 25 to 40 than even male business owners. I tend to attract mostly women because I have a softer style. I\u2019m a little loud and outspoken and that\u2019s what people like. That\u2019s what attracts women into my audience. So once you clear on who you want to talk to, start creating content and I don\u2019t mean blogs. I don\u2019t mean Facebook lives. I don\u2019t mean podcasts. I mean any content, whatever resonates with you. They want to know who you are before they pick up the phone.<\/p>\n<p>I can\u2019t tell you how many times somebody is like, \u201cI\u2019ve been watching you for six months and now I\u2019m ready to hire you.\u201d People are watching so you need to start building up that repertoire. So start figuring out who you want to work with and then start creating content that serves them. Then the third thing I would do is get clear on what is the big project, what are you working towards and how can you take really calculated steps to move you towards that every single day. So for me, I started my business in February of 2015, my current business and I knew we wanted a Facebook ads course. That was really my number one priority at the time.<\/p>\n<p>Even though we launched the Periscope first, even though we did all this stuff first, we launched a Facebook ads course October November of that year. Everything we did was building towards that. I was talking about Facebook ads and creating content. The periscope course was a byproduct of talking about Facebook ads on periscope. I was just very strategically paying attention, getting clear on my audience, listening to what they wanted and making sure that everything was moving towards the ultimate goal which was again that Facebook ads course and leaving my master\u2019s program and quitting my job. So revenue and a Facebook ads course and I just moved myself towards that every single day with building my list, getting clear on my launch, studying launch strategies, studying my audience.<\/p>\n<p>So if you\u2019re just getting started, just to kind of recap because that was a lot that I threw out there. Number one, do the stuff that other people won\u2019t do even if it\u2019s boring and sucks because it will make you stand out. There was this fascinating stat I read from a website designer. They reached out to 10 top companies in their industry and only two responded. So think about how easy it really is to stand out in any industry. So do hard work, do the outreach, kind of go nose to the grindstone to get yourself out there. Then get clear on your audience and start developing content that speaks to them, because you will attract people. Yes, you are to market that content.<\/p>\n<p>Yes, you can run Facebook ads, but if you start bogging yourself down with like, \u201cHow do I get my content in front of people?\u201d You\u2019ve already lost it. You know how to get your content in front of people. Run an ad. Post it on Instagram. Ask people in your industry to share it. Do the stuff that other people won\u2019t do. Again, recurring theme. Then finally get clear on where you want to go. Are you like moving towards building a course? You don\u2019t have to know your five year plan. I wish I knew where I was going to be in five years, but unfortunately I don\u2019t. I do know where I want to be in three months for the business and I\u2019m actively moving towards that.<\/p>\n<p>So whether you want a 10 client a month retainer, whether you want to launch your first course, whether you want to land one corporate client every month, get super clear on what that is because then you\u2019re no longer just chasing business and creating content. You\u2019re actively moving towards a business goal and that\u2019s how real businesses operate. Quarterly goals, key and performance indicators like start bringing that into it and start switching to a business operation model.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> This is such great advice Zach. You\u2019ve mentioned a couple of times throughout this conversation. We and like your team and I know you didn\u2019t start with the team. So I want to hear a little bit about the evolution of your business and even like the burnout that you had early on. Whatever you\u2019re willing to share and how you\u2019ve used that to really grow a team and be more strategic about how you run your business especially because so many copywriters are solo and they\u2019ve not build the team. They\u2019re not sure how to do that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Zach:<\/strong> What\u2019s really funny is I put up a lot of resistance to hiring my first virtual assistant. I told myself this story that I couldn\u2019t hire a VA until I made six figures and I didn\u2019t which I highly recommend against. It\u2019s like the biggest mistake I made. That\u2019s what kind of painted into a corner of working 80 hours a week. We hear this on every show so I know I\u2019m giving this advice and then everyone is going to go out and wait to hire one anyway, but I can sincerely say like hiring a VA was like a total game changer for me. I think everybody has to go through like some kind of experience that proves to them they need a team. So I\u2019ll tell you my story real quick about when we really started to dramatically shift away.<\/p>\n<p>So about a year ago, I took a vacation to Mexico with my family. My mom, my stepdad got married a few years ago. This was like a delayed honeymoon. We were waiting for the whole family to go so I was there with my stepsister and my mom and my dad. We were all there. I start having panic attacks. I had no idea why. I didn\u2019t know why I was having panic attacks at the time but I just struggled with anxiety and depression my whole life. I was good. I had been healthy. I had been working out and suddenly I left the country and was out of my element and not working.<\/p>\n<p>My anxiety was like full blown awful. I came back. I ended up a kind of being out of commission for a month. Now luckily we really started to have some systems in place that made it less noticeable. The people around me knew something was up. Then I was just totally unplugged, not feeling it, in between bouts of like \u201cI\u2019m not going to get up today. I\u2019m just going to stay in bed and like watch sad movies all day or like happy movies but like still cry. So that makes it a sad movie.\u201d I was just like, \u201cI am not feeling this.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I had this kind of moment where I realized back to what I said about I was basically running my company as me. Since I was out of commission, the company was out of commission. The whole point of starting this business for most of us is like freedom. Having to struggle with panic attacks and I\u2019m trying get back on my anxiety medication, dealing with all of this crap while going, \u201cWhat the heck is the business doing?\u201d was not working. From that point, we really pivoted. By we, I mean I made the executive decision that everything we do needs to be systematizable or outsourceable to the point that if I can only show up to work for half hour like the company can\u2019t tank. Like that is not sustainable.<\/p>\n<p>What that required was a couple of things. Number one, it required me being clear about what the business needed even if it felt uncomfortable. That came down to a designer. We need a designer. There are times where I don\u2019t have time to create a book or I\u2019m not in the mood to create a workbook and I need a designer because that is the freedom lifestyle to me. We brought in a podcast editor which we kind of had from day one. So that\u2019s not really fair but he is a lifesaver. I ended up promoting my VA to a manager and bringing a VA under her which worked out really, really well, because later this week, my manager is going on maternity leave. We brought in someone to train under her so we don\u2019t need to panic that the team structure is changing a little bit.<\/p>\n<p>We got really clear on like what is the stuff that has to happen. That kind comes back again to this discipline conversation which is I actually don\u2019t work that much but I am really strategic when I get on. So the team now focuses on a really key project. We have the really clear marker of the stuff that has to go out on a regular basis. So we\u2019ve always got one project like I said right now it\u2019s our automated webinar. Then next week it\u2019ll be kind of our upcoming launch. Then we have standing kind of systems that happen every week. So somebody goes into my inbox every day and checks my email. That happens whether I\u2019m online or not.<\/p>\n<p>Every Monday, a podcast goes out. It\u2019s published at my site. That is not done by me. That is managed by my team. We do outreach with all of my clients and scheduling. Every single one of my clients knows my VA and my manager by name because I don\u2019t do scheduling. Number one, I\u2019m bad at scheduling. Number two, it\u2019s not sustainable for me to be doing all my scheduling. So my team was number one like this act of faith. Like, \u201cHey, I\u2019m just going to do it. We\u2019re going to hire these people. We\u2019re going to see what happens.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Then secondary was we all align with a vision. We do a bimonthly team meeting. We meet twice a month. I have it this afternoon. We talk about the focus of the company. We check in with what everybody is working on and then we have sustainable systems in place. I think this was a great question, because how am I disciplined? Well I\u2019m not discipline, the company and the management of my team is really disciplined. How do you really do that? The big question, the question I had is like, how do you actually get a team that does that? How do you get these people in place? How do you systematize?<\/p>\n<p>Something that nobody really wants to in my experience admit is like you go through growing pains. You struggle. You miss a deadline. You miss a podcast. Your email doesn\u2019t go out. You have a pissed off client one week. You train your team to see the gaps and evaluate the gaps. Now my team operates like a freaking machine where I\u2019m like, \u201cOh sorry guys, I just realized I was offline for three days. Thanks for holding down the fort.\u201d That took again about a year. It really took a year to get to this point where I can disappear for three days and my team understands and they know. We\u2019ve had very candid conversations about where I am. So yeah. Does that answer the question? I was little longwinded on that one.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Yes, thank you. That was incredible. Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Definitely does. Listening, I got to get myself a team so I can disappear for a few weeks. So Zach, if people want to connect with you online, where can they find you? I think you might have a launch coming up if people are interested.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Zach:<\/strong> Absolutely. So the best place to connect with me is over at heartsoulhustle.com. We got a little start here button in the corner so you can pick what you\u2019re working on whether it\u2019s Facebook ads or listen to us over on the Heart, Soul and Hustle Podcast. We do have a really awesome launch coming up. I\u2019ll be totally candid. We had a little project popup so we don\u2019t know exactly what we\u2019re launching next. What we\u2019ll be focusing on is digital products.<\/p>\n<p>So if you\u2019re looking to either build your list or launch your products more effectively, the next thing we have coming out is pretty cool. So get yourself over to heartsoulhustle.com. Sign up for our free Facebook ads mini course, our Facebook ads workbook and when something fun happens, you will be the first to know. I\u2019m really good at sales. So just know, if you download the freebie like you\u2019re going to spend money.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Zach, thank you for your time. You\u2019ve helped me rethink a lot of things in my business. So I\u2019m sure that you\u2019ve helped other copywriters who are listening as well. You know I\u2019m a big fan so thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>Yes thanks.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Zach:<\/strong> Thanks so much for having me.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>This is the 45th episode of\u00a0The Copywriter Club Podcast and we&#8217;re joined by online business expert Zach Spuckler. As you listen, you\u2019ll see that Zach\u2019s energy and enthusiasm is contagious\u2014and [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_coblocks_attr":"","_coblocks_dimensions":"","_coblocks_responsive_height":"","_coblocks_accordion_ie_support":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[2],"tags":[3,62],"class_list":["post-817","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-podcast","tag-podcast","tag-zach-spuckler"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v26.7 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>TCC Podcast #45: Building Authority and Showing Up with Zach Spuckler - The Copywriter Club<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"[interview] Online business expert Zach Spuckler on building expertise, how to write good copy, showing up in your business and building systems for success\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/online-business-expert-zach-spuckler\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"TCC Podcast #45: Building Authority and Showing Up with Zach Spuckler - 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