{"id":825,"date":"2017-08-22T14:53:19","date_gmt":"2017-08-22T07:53:19","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/?p=825"},"modified":"2018-01-04T11:20:25","modified_gmt":"2018-01-04T04:20:25","slug":"humor-copywriter-lianna-patch","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/humor-copywriter-lianna-patch\/","title":{"rendered":"TCC Podcast #46: Comedy in Copy with Lianna Patch"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>For the 46th episode of\u00a0<em>The Copywriter Club Podcast<\/em>, our friend, copywriter and comedian, Lianna Patch stops by to tell her story (she starts at the very beginning) about making copywriting her career. During the next 40ish minutes share also shares:<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0Why she chose humor as her \u201chook\u201d for copywriting clients<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0her snarky answer to the dumbest question Rob has ever asked<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0the enormously helpful life hack that would freak out AA<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0how the rules of comedy can improve your copywriting<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0how to be funny without being nasty<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0what she did to land her first (and second and third) speaking engagements<br \/>\n\u2022 \u00a0how she deals with projects that scare her<\/p>\n<p>And we cover a whole lot of other ground too. Like what brands are doing a good job with humorous copy and the advice she has for new copywriters. Plus, Lianna is the first guest to tell a joke on the podcast. As you\u2019ve come to expect, this is another solid episode packed with ideas you can put to use in your business. To hear it, click\u00a0the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.<\/p>\n<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_2474\"><!--[if lt IE 9]><script>document.createElement('audio');<\/script><![endif]-->\n<audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-825-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC046.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC046.mp3\">https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC046.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC046.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/?powerpress_pinw=825-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/content.blubrry.com\/thecopywriterclub\/TCC046.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"TCC046.mp3\">Download<\/a><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe: <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/thecopywriterclub.com\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a><\/p>\n<h3>The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:<\/h3>\n<p><em>Sponsor:<\/em>\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/www.airstory.co\/club?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com &amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">AirStory<\/a>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/copyhackers.com\/join-the-copywriter-mastermind?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">The Copywriter Mastermind<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/gp\/product\/B00AU877OY\/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=9325&amp;creativeASIN=B00AU877OY&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;tag=brandstory00-20&amp;linkId=061c3e14ecdbcdd4cc4be13ce089a2d6\">Boxed Wine<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/calltoactionconference.unbounce.com\/recap-2017\/?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">CTA Conference<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/conversio.com\/deep-dive\/sustainable-ecommerce\/?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Lianna\u2019s Sustainable E-Commerce Post<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/iconiContent?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor\">Aaron Orendorf<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/unbounce.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Unbounce<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.noew.org?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">New Orleans Entrepreneur Week<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/conversionworld.co?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Conversion World<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.deepdyve.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">DeepDyve<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/harrisonamy.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Amy Harrison<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/www.boomeranggmail.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Boomerang for Gmail<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/snapcopy.co?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Snapcopy.co<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/turnercreative.ca?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">James Turner<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.footcardigan.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Foot Cardigan<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/jen-havice\/\">Jennifer Havice<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/wistia.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Wistia<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.dropps.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Dropps<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.punchlinecopy.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">PunchlineCopy<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.punchlinecopy.com\/5-ways-to-be-funnier-in-your-copy\/?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">5 Ways to Be Funnier in Your Copy<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/kirahug.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Kira\u2019s website<\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/kaleighmoore.us11.list-manage.com\/subscribe?u=7bdb50a2eb0d5b0a501cd1bf4&amp;id=9bf46b3e1d\"><br \/>\n<\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/www.brandstoryonline.com?utm_source=thecopywriterclub.com&amp;utm_medium=shownotes\">Rob\u2019s website<\/a><a href=\"http:\/\/kaleighmoore.us11.list-manage.com\/subscribe?u=7bdb50a2eb0d5b0a501cd1bf4&amp;id=9bf46b3e1d\"><br \/>\n<\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/groups\/thecopywriterclub\/\">The Copywriter Club Facebook Group<\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\"><br \/>\n<\/a>Intro:\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/soundcloud.com\/fauves\/content-for-now\">Content (for now)<\/a><br \/>\nOutro:\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/album\/gravity\/id304219081?i=304219099\">Gravity<\/a>\n<h3>Full Transcript:<\/h3>\n<p><em>The Copywriter Club Podcast<\/em> is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co\/club.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failure, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That\u2019s what Rob and I do every week at the Copywriter Club Podcast.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> You\u2019re invited to join the club for episode 46, as we chat with freelance copywriter, Lianna Patch about the challenges of leaving an agency job to strike out on her own, getting attention at conferences, her copy optimization service called Snap, and whether there\u2019s a place for rubber chickens and whoopee cushions in copywriting.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Hi, Liana. Hi, Rob.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Hey, guys.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> Hey.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> How\u2019s it going?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> Good. Thanks for having me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> You\u2019re welcome. I think a good place to start is just finding out if you were funny as a kid, and what you wanted to be when you grew up. I feel like that\u2019s the question I want to know.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> Oh, okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Did you always have a buzzer in your hand for handshakes? And rattlesnake eggs to hand the kids at school?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna: <\/strong>I think I was the unintentionally funny kid. I still have this expression, like I still have serious resting bitch face. My parents used to call me Little Miss Thundercloud because my resting face. I would say things that I thought were very serious and they would laugh at me, and then I would go, \u201cDon\u2019t laugh.\u201d So, it\u2019s kind of like a 180 from there.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Tell us your story.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna: <\/strong>My story? Well, my dad loved my mom very much and so after they had my brother they were like, \u201cThis one\u2019s a dud. We should probably try again,\u201d and then I was born. Fast forwarding to now, I\u2019ve worked in a couple agency settings, it didn\u2019t seem to stick. I was doing my own stuff on the side throughout, and then everything kind of gelled when I took the first Copywriter Mastermind with Joanna Wiebe and I started to figure out that I should pinpoint humor, and that I should focus just on copywriting because I had noticed that I was getting way too deep into editing, especially publications editing, and I hated it so much. But, then I looked at my work schedule and it was like, \u201cAll I\u2019m doing is editing magazine and I\u2019m not writing anything.\u201d So, I sort of refocused, rebranded, and I\u2019ve been writing fun, and funny stuff, and much more conversion copy oriented stuff since then.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>So, Lianna, you said that during the Mastermind you sort of figured out that you wanted to focus on humor. What was that process and why did you land on humor as opposed to something else?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> I think there was some of that soul searching stuff that all of the online gurus are always telling you to. Like, \u201cWhat do you love doing the most? What makes you happy? What doesn\u2019t feel like work?\u201d I had also just interviewed one of the people who runs the comedy theater here, that I eventually got involved in, and I had a good time chatting with him and then he said, \u201cWhy don\u2019t you come take a class?\u201d so, I did that and then i ended up taking all the classes and graduating from the Conservatory, and I\u2019ve been doing improv, and sketch, and stand-up since then. It was like, \u201cOkay, I\u2019m already doing comedy in my life, why don\u2019t I try to make my work more fun? Who says I\u2019m not allowed to do that? Why isn\u2019t anyone doing that?\u201d There are people, for sure, already doing humor copy, but I thought there was a little bit more room for me to squeeze in.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> So what has the evolution been like for you to really create these services and almost like prove to the market that it\u2019s important? I imagine it hasn\u2019t been easy.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:\u00a0 <\/strong>I\u2019m still figuring it out. When I think about where humor copy works best &#8230; obviously when you\u2019re right in the call to action it\u2019s probably not a good place for humor because you don\u2019t want to distract anybody, you want them to just click through, you don\u2019t want to be clever over clear. But I think there\u2019s a lot more room for humor in emails, obviously social posts, and lately I\u2019ve been doing a lot more funny content. So, when people come to me for long form content, I make sure ahead of time that they\u2019re okay with me being kind of weird and a little bit &#8230; I think, not offensive, but occasionally a little bit borderline. One time I did a long form content piece that I worked so hard on and then I saw the edited draft and they had just cut out all my jokes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Oh, no!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> Yeah, and I had checked with them ahead of time to make sure. It was like, \u201cDid you come to me for my style?\u201d And they were like, \u201cYes.\u201d They came to me, so when I saw the final draft I was like, \u201cWait, what happened?\u201d Now I try to make sure ahead of time that people know that they want me, they don\u2019t want just regular old-<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Well, it\u2019s all so obvious on your website. It should not be a surprise.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna: <\/strong>Yeah, hopefully.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Anybody that lands on your website and then wants serious copy, there\u2019s some serious understanding issues, right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna: <\/strong>Exactly.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Let me ask this question: What\u2019s so wrong with boring copy? For 99% of copy out there is boring, or at least plain and simple. What\u2019s wrong with that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna: <\/strong>Boring inherently is terrible, isn\u2019t it? Who\u2019s like, \u201cYou know what I want to do? I want to read a really boring book. I want to watch the worst movie.\u201d If you can make it better, why not? If there\u2019s an opportunity to entertain along with educating and informing, and building a relationship, why not? I think there\u2019s different ways to do it, you don\u2019t have to be kind of obnoxious and absurd about it. But that\u2019s my favorite way. You can be sweet and helpful and still lighthearted. There\u2019s a lot of different ways to approach it, but all of them I think are better than just corporate robot copy.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Yeah. Do you think that we are all funny in our own way? Or are there shades of gray? I feel like we almost put ourselves into these categories of like, \u201cLianna is funny, but I\u2019m not funny so I can\u2019t even approach this with a sense of humor.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna: <\/strong>Oh, man. This is the question, \u201cIs everybody funny? Can everybody be funny?\u201d I think so because everybody laughs, right? Some people laugh more than others, everybody has a different sense of humor. But if you spend a couple weeks mindfully paying attention to what you find funny, and what makes you laugh, then you can start to find patterns in that and maybe emulate it, you know? Not everybody thinks the same things are funny but everybody has a sense of humor. I hope. God, I hope.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> If we were thinking, \u201cHey, The Copywriter Club website I pretty boring,\u201d it\u2019s just transcripts or whatever. Or my own personal website is maybe a little bit plain, it doesn\u2019t bring out my personality. What sort of things could I do, or could Kira and I do, or another writer do to start to be funny in a way that\u2019s natural?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna: <\/strong>Starting with that process of figuring out what is funny to you, that\u2019s the good baseline. Then, looking at your favorite movies, and books, and podcasts, and comedians, and figuring out &#8230; I know I\u2019m just repeating myself, but what you find funny and then taking a risk. Take a calculated risk somewhere in the copy where you say something that is gonna be divisive, and see how people react. I\u2019m sure that I get tons of people coming to my site who take one look at it and they\u2019re like, \u201cNope. Not for me.\u201d But then the people who do get in touch with me say things like, \u201cI loved your website copy.\u201d I finally added that question to my intake form. You know, \u201cWhy are you interested in working with me specifically?\u201d It\u2019s the last question on the intake form and most people who answer it say, \u201cBecause I like your website copy. Because you\u2019re funny.\u201d Someone wrote to me the other day and they\u2019re like, \u201cYou seem warm and friendly, and it feels like you\u2019re approachable.\u201d And that is 100% what I\u2019m trying to accomplish.<\/p>\n<p>So, I think you know just being you, which is the advice that everybody gets, \u201cJust be you. Don\u2019t be afraid to be yourself.\u201d But, really, do. Make a joke that you think is funny. Be self indulgent and see who it attracts.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> It seems like there\u2019s some confidence in there, too, and a mindset switch that you need. Because especially a lot of new copywriters might feel intimidated to put out that joke on their website because they think it should be a certain way, or maybe they have a strange sense of humor, and they\u2019re worried that no one will actually connect with their sense of humor, so it\u2019s almost like they have to just really build their confidence enough so that they\u2019re willing to kind of put it out there. That doesn\u2019t happen immediately, right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna: <\/strong>Might I suggest box wine for that? That\u2019s a really helpful life hack that I\u2019ve discovered. I honestly wish that I had done more of that confidently putting myself out there sooner, because for so long my brand was kind of just like, \u201cMeh.\u201d I feel like that was a lightyear leap ahead for me. But, there is always the person at the open mic who goes up and confidently tells the worst, most offensive jokes, and you don\u2019t want to be that person. So if you\u2019re not sure, ask a friend, ask someone who\u2019s opinion you trust. Like, \u201cHey is this funny? Is this over the line? Is this connecting the right way,\u201d and not just making people think, \u201cWow, this person is weird.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Lianna, you mentioned that you\u2019ve done comedy theater, you\u2019ve done improv, and sketch, and even stand up, so I think a lot of people would say, \u201cWell, yeah okay, it\u2019s easy for you because you\u2019ve had this training on how to be funny. What about the rest of us?\u201d What are some lessons from improve and sketch that we could take, without necessarily taking those courses, to make ourselves funnier? At the very least, to make some of our copy funny?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> Well, first get drunk and that\u2019s really\u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> You know, I\u2019m sorry. I keep saying that, \u201cI\u2019m sorry everyone.\u201d That is clearly gonna be the headline for this podcast.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna: <\/strong>Get Drunk, Write Funny, and other sentences that aren\u2019t really &#8230; The baseline rule of improv no matter where you take it is, \u201cYes, and?\u201d Say yes to your weird ideas. Say, \u201cOkay, if this is so, then what else is true?\u201d So, instead of editing as you\u2019re writing, or instead of criticizing your own jokes as you\u2019re writing, just keep going with it. No one has to see it. See where you end up because, just like when you\u2019re writing and you discover, \u201cOh, I can just actually cut this whole first intro paragraph because I don\u2019t need it,\u201d you might end up in a place with funny writing where, you know, you end up somewhere good but the first part you can just scrap. You don\u2019t need the lead in. Saying yes and seeing where it takes you is useful, always making jokes or centering your writing around what you already know, it\u2019s so much easier to make jokes about what\u2019s familiar to you. I can make jokes about cats because I can\u2019t get away from them.<\/p>\n<p>They follow me down the street. That happened this morning actually. I ran into a cat and it was like, \u201cTake me with you.\u201d I was like, \u201cI wish I could.\u201d And inbound marketing of things like that. It\u2019s easy for me because I spend all day living in this world, and I can\u2019t make jokes about other things because I don\u2019t have that knowledge to reach for. I can go on because it\u2019s all tied together I think. Specificity is so important, and it\u2019s easier to be specific when you know a topic. If you watch some really great stand ups it\u2019s the word choice that they use when they deliver a line. It\u2019s not even that the line itself is super funny but it\u2019s the words, the specific words that they choose along with their delivery that makes it so funny. I\u2019m just rambling now.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob: <\/strong>You mentioned that, too. But I think this is maybe one of the things that I struggle with in comedy, because so much of comedy is the expression on your face, or the way that you\u2019ve moved your body. It\u2019s physical, right? That is really hard to deliver in copy so that a joke doesn\u2019t fall flat, or come across as maybe sarcastic, or nasty. I\u2019ve been joking online with people and I look back and I see what I wrote. What was meant to be sort of sarcastic and funny was like really biting and mean.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Are you talking about our messages back and forth, Rob?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Not between you and me, no. But how do you bridge that? Because we don\u2019t want to come across as mean, but we do want to be funny.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna: <\/strong>That\u2019s interesting to me. When I was doing a lot more editing I wrote very grammatically correctly, and by the book, and I punctuated correctly, and things like that. One huge thing that I\u2019ve noticed myself start to do is accept the internet parlance of lower casing a word, or a sentence, or leaving off punctuation, or punctuating intentionally incorrectly, or using emoji, and things like that. I think you can make those tone shifts in your writing, but you have to be willing to not write by the book grammatically.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> So, no more all caps for me?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Stop screaming at everybody, Rob!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna: <\/strong>Exactly.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> We\u2019ve talked a lot in the Facebook group and in the podcasts about choosing your niche and how important that is. Or maybe you don\u2019t need to do that. But it sounds like that plays into what you do, because if you can be funny, or when you really known a topic, or you know your content better than anybody, it seems like that really supports the argument that choosing a niche could help you as a copywriter because you have that deep understanding so you can crack the jokes because you know it better than anybody.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> Hopefully. I don\u2019t know it better than anybody.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Or am I just putting a lot of pressure on all of us?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> Oh, my god. I\u2019m so uncomfortable.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> You mentioned the tip: Be specific. Can you just explain that a bit more, and how we can do that as copywriters? Are there any exercises we can use to help us with that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> Get drunk. No, I\u2019m just kidding.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> I just had a little too much to drink this morning.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong>\u00a0 Guys, it\u2019s 11 o\u2019clock, okay? We don\u2019t start drinking for another 15 minutes. I have work to do. Actually, I was thinking about is last night because I was trying to write something and I was just &#8230; You know you\u2019re like brain dead by the end of the day. I was trying to describe our copywriting \u201ctrifecta,\u201d which is what they\u2019re calling it at CTAConf this month.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> I\u2019m not laughing at you. I like it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> Oh, I know. I didn\u2019t call it that. Don\u2019t worry. I kind of like it, trifecta makes me feel like a fancy cake. But, I was like, \u201cOkay, how do I describe this? I don\u2019t have any words?\u201d Sometimes when I\u2019m tired and I just have to get the framework for something out I\u2019ll just use a bunch of hyphenated adjectives in place of the word that I\u2019m looking for, or pick a noun that kind of gives me the feeling of what I\u2019m looking for but isn\u2019t quite right yet. That sometimes ends up staying in the writing because giving myself that leeway to be a little more relaxed, and a little more vague with it will sometimes help you find a funnier angle. For instance, I was trying to describe what the feeling of seeing three copywriters in quick succession helping you go from customer research, all the way through edited, publish-ready copy would be like, and I think I ended up calling it A Three-Part Slam-Dunk Conversion Copywriting Whirlwind, which isn\u2019t right, but it\u2019s an image, you know? And it kind of give you the sense that it\u2019s gonna punch you in the face with copywriting knowledge.<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s what I was going for. I don\u2019t know if that\u2019s gonna make it into the final draft but just giving yourself some leeway to choose weird words can help you be more specific sometimes. Does that make any sense at all?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> It takes off the pressure immediately, right? So you have some space to kind of figure it out, and then come back to it as well. Sometimes I feel like I force myself to figure it out on the spot and then I can\u2019t really nail it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> Yeah, I know that sometimes I know that I just need to get past that and move on to something else, and come back to it later and I\u2019ll have that idea of what I was trying to say. I end up with many hyphenated adjectives and then sometimes instead of using an adjective I\u2019ll just quote the feeling that I\u2019m feeling. I\u2019m trying to think of an example. It\u2019s an easier way to get into your reader\u2019s head, too. So instead of using a word you can just be like, \u201cI know you\u2019re feeling exactly this way, so I\u2019m just gonna put it in quotes and shove it in here.\u201d Kind of a shortcut.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> It feels like a lot of writing funny is actually rewriting over and over. I think this is true of most professional comedians is they rework a joke, and change the words to see how an audience responds, and re-tweak it again and again. People like Jerry Seinfeld, who may actually work on a joke for months before they\u2019re ready to sort of roll it out. It sounds like that\u2019s maybe some of your same process. Maybe not for months, because very few clients will wait that long, but there\u2019s gotta be a lot of rewriting and reworking in order to make the joke fall correctly.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> Yeah, I definitely don\u2019t rework that intensively, but I think it comes down mostly to editing and figuring out wen it\u2019s appropriate to have a joke, and when you really just need to kill your darlings and cut the fluff, and move on. I just finished up a piece, actually it went live today. I just got an email about it. It\u2019s a little bit over 5,000 words on sustainable eCommerce, which doesn\u2019t sound like the liveliest topic in the world, but I had such a great time writing it. I worked with some really great editors, and so they went through and they marked places where they\u2019re like, \u201cHey, I think this is a little distracting. Maybe just cut this parenthetical aside about yourself.\u201d Because that\u2019s another way that I like to insert myself into content, is just make a parenthetical side here and there. But, they really helped me polish it down to what it should be, rather than the sprawling draft that I delivered. It wasn\u2019t crazy but there were a few too many jokes in there. So, I think editing and being merciless in that regard definitely helps.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> I think that just shows you the power of editing and that every copywriter should have some type of editor, whether you have someone who\u2019s on your team, or you just reach out to one of your copy therapists, or copy partners to get feedback. I\u2019ve received feedback from both of you on many projects, and it\u2019s always helpful. If I\u2019m stuck somewhere you kind of help me through it and I think we all need that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> I can\u2019t imagine not needing that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> So, I want to backtrack a bit. You mentioned earlier that you had wished you had kind of put yourself out there more. You\u2019re obviously doing it now. I\u2019m just curious, what was the catalyst for you to help you kind of get the confidence, or whatever you needed, to start putting yourself out there in a bigger way, and really start landing these big speaking engagements, bigger projects, what shifted for you? Because there are probably a lot of copywriter who need that, whatever it is.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna: <\/strong>Being in the Mastermind with a group of friends and peers helps so much. Because it was like, \u201cOkay, finally I\u2019m not alone out here. I have external validation that what I\u2019m doing is not terrible, and that maybe I should try fort things.\u201d That\u2019s one side of it, like being surrounded by other writers who can build you up and help you and direct you, and validate that what you\u2019re doing is not stupid, which I constantly need. Do you all know Aaron Orndorff?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> I\u2019ve heard his name. I don\u2019t know him.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna: <\/strong>He\u2019s the guy that says, \u201cLet\u2019s get rejected.\u201d That\u2019s his catchphrase. His thing is like, \u201cJust try, and let\u2019s get rejected. Let\u2019s collect \u2018nos.\u2019\u201d I think it was a combination of just being exasperated with my anxiety, like living with anxiety and constantly cutting myself down before I even gave anybody else a chance to do that. Just being like, \u201cHey, why don\u2019t I just try?\u201d Why don\u2019t I just pitch on Unbounce, on speaking next year and just see what happens? Even if they say no, maybe I will have formed a relationship for the year after that? Or maybe I\u2019ll just write to this person and be like, \u201cHey, I think you\u2019re super funny,\u201d or \u201cHey, I think you\u2019re super smart. Just wanted to tell you that.\u201d Not ask for anything, just connect and that kind of thing. So, that\u2019s how I started that. It was just a combination of being tired of being my own worst critic, and having peer support.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Now you\u2019ve been picked up by two or three different conferences, if I\u2019m not mistaken? You\u2019re speaking all over the place in the next couple of months.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna: <\/strong>Yeah. I\u2019m excited. I spoke at New Orleans Entrepreneur Week here in March, which was fun. That was the second time I spoke here with a friend of mine who\u2019s a graphic designer. She did all the stuff on my site, she\u2019s amazing. I spoke at Conversion World, which is a virtual conference. That was just me in a room with a headset, being funny to a webcam, which was, \u201cUgh.\u201d Recordings are available.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> I want to see that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna: <\/strong>Sure you do. I wasn\u2019t even able to watch it all the way through, but I had a good time. Some people wrote to me and they were like, \u201cNever though about retention marketing that way.\u201d I was like, \u201cOkay, great. One person got value from this.\u201d That\u2019s the other thing, as long as one person can get value from it, then that\u2019s fine. The first time I ever went to a stand up open mic, my best friend was there, and she sat in the back. I just told all my jokes to her, and they landed super well because I was relaxed and I was just having a conversation with my friend. So, that\u2019s kind of the way that I\u2019m trying to approach speaking. I\u2019ll be at CTAConf later this month, talking about how to edit your own writing, and a couple of things you can do to hack your dumb brain when you\u2019re editing your own stuff. Should I just keep going?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> I\u2019m making a list, okay? I really want to hear about the impact. If you can speak to the impact of these speaking engagements, and I know some of them are coming up still. But, just how they\u2019ve changed your business, if they have? Also, I\u2019m stealing two questions here, how do we get started? If someone listening wants to speak onstage and they know they can be decent they just haven\u2019t done it yet, what are some of the steps they can take to potentially speak on a big stage over the next six months, or over the next year?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> In terms of impact, I wouldn\u2019t say life-changing impact. I\u2019ve definitely been approached by a couple people, potential client work, I\u2019ve made some really cool connections with people all over the world. Somebody tweeted a photo of his laptop watching my Conversion World broadcast in South Africa with Cable Mountain in the background, and a glass of wine, and I was like, \u201cOh, you\u2019re so cool.\u201d Then we ended up getting on a call, and it was really cool to meet him. He runs an eCommerce optimization agency. In terms of getting started, first get drunk. You guys, it\u2019s a call back. It\u2019s my one joke. I\u2019m sorry. I\u2019m sorry everyone listening. Figure out what your most interested in exploring and then just do some research. I like to use DeepDyve and look up scholarly articles related to marketing research and marketing psychology, and buyer psychology, and figure out what the latest news is, and what the latest findings are saying, and try to integrate that into what we already know, and what works best in practice, and just put together a talk outline for 15 or 20 minutes for yourself.<\/p>\n<p>If you want you can give it to a friend and say, \u201cAre there any pieces of this that don\u2019t make sense? Am I jumping from topic to topic without making a connection? Is it too heavy in one area or another?\u201d That\u2019s how I start to put together talks. I\u2019m just like, \u201cWhat\u2019s interesting? How can I give good context around it? Then how can I make it entertaining to watch and hear?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> So, all of this, are you putting together this presentation before you\u2019re even pitching it? So you have the presentation and you can really speak to what you can deliver. Is that the process?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> Sometimes. If you know that you\u2019re putting together something that will sit really well at a conference definitely pitch something. Or if you already have a couple of presentation, like I have a few now that I\u2019ve pitched here and there but I wanted to do for Unbounce, a presentation on humor in copy, but they needed someone to talk about editing, and I was like, \u201cOkay, I can talk about that, too.\u201d Maybe this is the first time I speak at CTAConf, maybe next year I get to speak on humor copy. I hope they\u2019re not listening because that sounds really presumptuous. [crosstalk 00:23:09] Hey, guys. I\u2019m very grateful.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Hopefully next year all three of us are speaking at CTA.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> So, you did pitch yourself then to Unbouce?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> I did. Basically right after the conference last year. Because I went and I was so excited to see everyone, especially Amy Harrison, who is so funny and so smart, and such a great writer. I was kind of fangirling, and I went up to her at this event at the conference, and we were at this science museum and I was just like, \u201cI think you\u2019re so cool. Let\u2019s hang out.\u201d Then I pretty much followed her around like a puppy through the museum and she was just like, \u201cI can\u2019t get rid of this person. Why is she still here? Give me more wine.\u201d Then we became friends and I think probably again in one drunken fit of pique one night, I was like, \u201cHey why not me?\u201d I emailed Unbounce and I was like, \u201cHow do you go about pitching for this? I\u2019d love to just know how it works.\u201d So, it actually took a lot of emails because I think the conference management changed hands four times over the course of the next few months. I started talking to them probably in September-ish? I decided to follow up one last time early this Spring.<\/p>\n<p>I was like, \u201cIt\u2019s probably nothing,\u201d but I have Boomerang for Gmail, so the email came back to my inbox, and I was like, \u201cI\u2019ll just send one last email.\u201d That last email got to the right person, we had a Skype call, and I said, \u201cOkay, I\u2019ve given this some thought. Here\u2019s how I think I can fit in with your existing speakers. Having heard what they\u2019re already talking about, here\u2019s where I can cap it off.\u201d And they said, \u201cOkay, sounds good. Let\u2019s do it.\u201d And I was like, \u201cWhat? Really? Me?\u201d But, persistence, you know? Polite, sweet follow ups because people are busy. That worked for me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> So, Lianna, you maybe have just sort of answered this question but I\u2019m wondering, do you do anything unique in your pitch process? Or do you just follow what they ask for? Send the outline, send an email? What are you doing to make yourself stand out from everybody else who\u2019s pitching?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> In terms of talks I\u2019m trying to be as open as possible and ask for feedback. If I pitch an idea, I\u2019ll say \u201cWe could do this, or we could do it this other way. What do you think?\u201d Or, \u201cHere\u2019s a different angle.\u201d Or, \u201cI could also talk about his element of if, or focus on this.\u201d So, I try to keep the conversation open and not super formal, which is actually how I\u2019ve been writing all of my emails for awhile. I think it gets really good results because first of all, people remember that they\u2019re talking to a human, and second of all say, \u201cOh, good. Okay this person is really invested in making our event, or our content piece, a success. Let\u2019s pick an avenue and go with it.\u201d You can also think of it as just throwing so many choices at them that they can\u2019t say no. \u201cPlease, just pick one! I\u2019ll do anything!\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> But, it worked. That\u2019s the incredible part, it worked. I think even what you said you attended to the conference, and I think that probably helps too. If there\u2019s an event that you want to speak at the next year, actually go so they can put a face to a name, and you can build a relationship. It\u2019s just a reminder to me, I\u2019m thinking I should really go to more events and conferences and build more relationships.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna: <\/strong>As long as you\u2019re a personable person while you\u2019re there. Because it\u2019s so hit or miss for me. Sometimes at conferences I\u2019m like, \u201cI\u2019m killing it right now. I am so charming everyone in this room is in love with me,\u201d and then other times I\u2019m like, \u201cI can\u2019t. I just can\u2019t. I\u2019m like a shrub in the corner.\u201d People come up to me and they\u2019re like, \u201cHi, what\u2019s your name?\u201d And I\u2019m like, \u201cDon\u2019t talk to me please.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Okay, that\u2019s kind of hard to believe.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Very hard to believe.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> I doubt it. Name the conference where you were a shrub? It does not exist.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna: <\/strong>Conversionxl Live the first time I went.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Okay, you were onstage singing karaoke and we were all in awe of your angelic voice.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> Kira, you know what they had at the karaoke party? You know what they had? Wine.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> I\u2019m really glad you guys brought up the singing though, because there\u2019s a video that we want to link to in the show notes that makes me laugh. Yeah, you\u2019re gonna want to check out-<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna: <\/strong>Wait, it makes you laugh? Are we talking about the same video?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> I think so.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> Oh, no. My acapella video?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> That is correct.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna: <\/strong>It makes him laugh? You\u2019re so cruel, Rob.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> I don\u2019t do humor very well, unfortunately.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Okay, so back to your presentations, your talks, and these are actually selfish questions because I\u2019m preparing for a talk in the Fall and I have no idea what I\u2019m doing. How do you prepare once you\u2019ve landed the speaking engagement? CTA is huge, so you don\u2019t want to mess it up, right? How do you prepare so you know you\u2019ll nail it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna: <\/strong>I spent about a week just freaking out, like a week on full-blown anxiety attack. Then I went and got prescribed anxiety medication. True story, guys. It\u2019s a real problem. This is just kind of an aside, this was me realizing that freaking out to the point where you are having nightmares is not a normal response to good news. So, it\u2019s like, \u201cOkay, my neurotransmitters are out of whack. Let\u2019s go fix that.\u201d So I did that. Then, I started, the way that I start with at lot of projects that scare me and excite me, which is paper. Instead of opening the Google Doc, I just grab some Post-It notes or a scrap of paper, and it feels like less pressure to start jotting down notes. That\u2019s also less distracting because when you\u2019re trying to avoid something that scares you, you can find yourself on Facebook extremely frequently. I don\u2019t know if anybody else has experienced this ever?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> You end up on <em>The Copywriter Club Facebook group<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna: <\/strong>Yeah, pretty much. Because I have blocked my news feed on Facebook, so now it\u2019s just group stuff in my notifications. So, I do spend some time on <em>The Copywriter Club<\/em>. I\u2019m not being paid to say that, I promise.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> I want to know where you\u2019re spending most of your time in your business today? Because you have multiple businesses too. Could you just speak to what services you\u2019re selling today, and what you\u2019re building, what your focusing your time on?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Yeah, tell us about Snap and what you\u2019re doing with James?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna: <\/strong>So, Snapcopy.co is my other copywriting business that I co-run with James Turner who is my business best friend, who we all know is just so wonderful and sweet, and incredibly smart and talented. So, Snap is conversion copy on demand, and we write small projects. So we write things like Facebook ads, and headlines, and taglines, and we also optimize larger projects. So when clients already have copy for a landing page but it\u2019s not converting, they\u2019ll bring it to us and we\u2019ll give feedback on the whole look of the page, like the UX and the layout, and the graphics, and then also make suggestions for improving the copy and making it more action oriented so that people convert.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Is that an opportunity for other writers? If people wanted work on small projects should the be reaching out to you and James? Or is the game locked? Tick-tock, game\u2019s locked?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> It\u2019s not locked but we are lucky to know many very accomplished conversion writers, so we have some people that we can reach out to when demand gets too high. But, we\u2019re always open to it. Email us. If we can grow the business to a point where we can hire everybody, awesome, we\u2019ll do it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Awesome. In your business, your services, how have you packaged them? I know you have some consulting and then you have &#8230; Well, why don\u2019t you share that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna: <\/strong>So, I have a couple packages, I also have a thing on my wall right now that\u2019s Things That You\u2019re Gonna Get Done by the End of April, and one of them is \u201cPut up more packages on your site.\u201d So, I\u2019m really nailing that you guys.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> It\u2019s June 1<sup>st<\/sup> today so &#8230;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> It literally says, \u201cLaunch Punchline Packages.\u201d Like, deadline for all of them: June 17<sup>th<\/sup>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Okay, you\u2019ve got some packages on your website, I mean it looks good.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna: <\/strong>Yeah. One of the things that I got interested in kind of organically, I was researching it for my Conversion World talk, was retention emails, and SaaS onboarding and retention email sequences. So, when you sign up for service and you get those emails once every couple of days that say, \u201cHey, can you log back in and do a thing?\u201d So many of those are so bad and I figured it\u2019s out of some company\u2019s budgets to have all of those written from scratch, and have all the research done from scratch. But if they already have them and they\u2019re not working why not offer a package where I can go in and say, \u201cWell, clearly this incredibly boring subject line isn\u2019t gonna get anybody to open the email, so right there is a fail for conversion. How can I go through up to six of your onboarding emails and make them better? Make them more interesting and engaging, and funny? Dare I say it?\u201d So that\u2019s one of the packages that I\u2019m offering.<\/p>\n<p>Then I have a road mapping session where people who are just kind of at a crossroads or just not sure where to go next can book an hour of my time. One of my agency jobs was Director of Inbound Marketing, so I have strategic background that I can say, \u201cHere\u2019s where you should focus your effort. Here\u2019s what your first priority should be. Don\u2019t blog every week if your blog isn\u2019t getting any traffic. That\u2019s not where you should be spending your effort.\u201d Stuff like that. That\u2019s one of the other things that I do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> So, Lianna, before we start to wrap up, I want to go back to humor a little bit. Are there companies that are doing humor really well that you look at and say, \u201cThese guys are nailing it\u201d?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> For sure. I should have put together a list. For instance, FootCardigan, which our friend, Jen Havice told me about, they sell socks and they just sent me an email today with the subject line: Your Dad Called, He Wants You to Save Some Money. That kind of weirdness stands out in your inbox. The whole email, I\u2019m looking at it now, is so weird. They\u2019re doing a great job. There are some SaaS companies using humor. Wistia has some fun retention emails where they send you a picture of a cute dog at a computer where it\u2019s like, \u201cDo you need some help? Because you haven\u2019t posted a video yet.\u201d It\u2019s kind of hit or miss, and what did I buy the other day? I bought something and the whole lead up to the checkout was so funny and fun. Oh, it was Dropps. It\u2019s a laundry packet subscription. Like a laundry detergent pack that they\u2019ll send to your house. I don\u2019t know, guys. I don\u2019t do that much laundry. I\u2019m not that much of a filthy animal but I might need a subscription to laundry detergent.<\/p>\n<p>But they have such a funny marketing video and their website copy is good. I was like, \u201cI can\u2019t wait to see what the checkout process is like, and I went through it and I get to the end of it and it was like, \u201cThank you for your order. Your confirmation will be sent to your email.\u201d It\u2019s like, \u201cOh, what a letdown.\u201d So, yes, many companies are doling it but they\u2019re not being consistent about it in the way that I think would be the most effective. Why not make it enjoyable all the way through?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Yeah, and even for retention, right? Because you keep going on through the entire customer relationship.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> Yeah. Like when you\u2019re super charming up front with someone on the first date, and they\u2019re like, \u201cI can\u2019t wait to see them again.\u201d Then the second date you\u2019re like, \u201cActually this is the real me. I am terrible.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna: <\/strong>The bait and switch.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Okay, so I have one last question for you. Because we have lots of new copywriters that listen to this podcast, what would be your advice to them to help them get started and really gain some traction, and figure out what they\u2019re good at, and put themselves out there? No pressure.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> In terms of writing funny copy or in just\u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> In general what you wish you would have heard when you were starting out?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna: <\/strong>I think just figuring out what feels like the most fun when you\u2019re working. Because I ended up in that spot where I was like, \u201cEverything that I\u2019m doing feels so much like work that I\u2019m actually not taking deep breaths while I\u2019m doing it.\u201d Like, while I was editing I was just holding my breath and getting so angry at these poor hapless writers who\u2019s work I was correcting. They were nice people but I was like, \u201cAah! This is so bad! How can you be so bad?\u201d Then I looked at it and I was like, \u201cWhat do I really love doing? I love writing weird stuff.\u201d And at the time, the only place I had been able to be weird was in the captions for this weekly blog that I was doing for a now defunct site called Fame Quarterly. I was just rounding up items on Etsy, either that I loved or that I thought were really stupid, and then sort of making fun of them while saying why I would buy them and then linking to them.<\/p>\n<p>I was having the most fun doing that. It never felt like work and I always looked forward to it. So if you are taking on a bunch of projects as you\u2019re deciding on your niche, what feels most fun to you and who are the most fun clients to work with? Who\u2019s calls do you look forward to? Who\u2019s calls do you\u2026 That kind of thing really helps.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> That\u2019s great advice for all of us.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> You know when you need money it\u2019s like, \u201cI can\u2019t really pick and choose.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Who needs money?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> Money is just a social construct you guys.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> We don\u2019t need money.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> So, Lianna, I have one last question for you and that is, will you tell us a joke?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> Oh, okay. I will tell you one joke and it\u2019s for all you inbound marketing people out there. Get ready.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> We actually have time for your whole stand up set. We\u2019ve got seven or eight minutes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> It\u2019s too bad that, I don\u2019t think we do, Rob. I don\u2019t think we have time. It\u2019s a shame because I was totally ready to do that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Next time. Next time.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> Yeah. Actually my whole stand up set, like my most recent one is about basically dating and my uterus, so nobody wants to hear that especially\u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> Oh, I do. I definitely do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> Whoo! It\u2019s a good time for everyone. I like watching people\u2019s faces in the audience. They\u2019re like, \u201cWho is she? Why is she telling me so much about her internal organs?\u201d Anyway, have you guys heard the one about the funnel who broke up with the landing page because they had different beliefs?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> I have not.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> Yeah, it\u2019s such a shame because the landing page just wasn\u2019t interested in converting.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Nice.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna: <\/strong>Ugh. You can\u2019t see me but I\u2019m pulling my collar out. Suicide.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> If our listeners want to hear more from you and maybe perhaps want to see you on video, and read your content, where can they find you?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> They can find me at PunclineCopy.com. I have made one video that has me talking about funny copy. I love it, too. It\u2019s so fun. I make videos for my sketch group and I was like, \u201cHey, why don\u2019t I make videos for myself?\u201d And then I made this one, and had such a great time with it so there will be more as soon as I get past all of these conferences. There will be more videos, but for now there is a video about Five Ways to Be Funnier in Your Copy, and it\u2019s on my site under Watch and Read where I\u2019ve collected, very egotistically all the things that I\u2019ve written that I like.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> We will link to that in the show notes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> Cool.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Kira:<\/strong> And thank you. Thank you for hanging out with us. You\u2019re the best.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rob:<\/strong> Lianna, thanks.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lianna:<\/strong> You guys are the best. Can we just keep hanging out?<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>For the 46th episode of\u00a0The Copywriter Club Podcast, our friend, copywriter and comedian, Lianna Patch stops by to tell her story (she starts at the very beginning) about making copywriting [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_coblocks_attr":"","_coblocks_dimensions":"","_coblocks_responsive_height":"","_coblocks_accordion_ie_support":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[2],"tags":[63,3],"class_list":["post-825","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-podcast","tag-lianna-patch","tag-podcast"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v26.7 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>TCC Podcast #46: Comedy in Copy with Lianna Patch - The Copywriter Club<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"[interview] Lianna Patch talks about using humor in copy (and the businesses doing it well), landing speaking gigs, doing things that scare her and more.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/thecopywriterclub.com\/humor-copywriter-lianna-patch\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"TCC Podcast #46: Comedy in Copy with Lianna Patch - 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